Comair Concessions?

[General Lee]

Ok, sorry I moved back to the RJDC argument, and I will get off the subject, right after I say that the judge only agreed to one of your arguments and dropped the rest, and I think the ALPA attorneys are well aware of the situation.

Anyways.....I think we will all eventually be asked for concessions, and I think this also has something to do with the ASA contract negotiations. I also think that we at mainline will eventually give some pay back, but not the whole 31%. And, if we do give some back, others will also have to give. (That's the deal) I don't know if that will include the fine people at Comair, or not, they have their own contract and own negotiators--so it is up to them. Things seem to be getting better in this industry, and the longer we wait, the better things seem to get. But, that looming debt problem (brought on partly this year by $1.2 billion worth of RJs this year alone,--not used by mainline.....) will have to be looked at eventually.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jarhead]

......as well as the 5$ billion dollar unfunded pension liabilty for Mainline pilots! Comair pilots will not contribute to that.

 

[General Lee]

Jarhead,

As I keep telling people, the pension shortfall is a FUNCTION OF THE STOCK MARKET. When stocks go up, as they have been lately, the pension shortfall gets smaller. You are not paying for mainline's pensions.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jarhead]

General........what assurance do you have that the stock will ever go up enough to cover that huge debt. Braniff went under too, ya know. I think the Comair group wants the Delta mainline group to cover their own pension short fall. How much money are mainline plots contributing to Comair pension funds. (bzzzzt....easy answer. Zero, cause Comair pilots do not have an unfunded pension plan).

 

[General Lee]

Jarhead,

You're right, I don't know if the stock will ever go up, but it has jumped 43% in the last couple of months, and things appear to be getting better, so I think it will eventually be covered. How about your pilots paying for the debt incurred by the $1.2 billion worth of RJs being bought for YOU (not us) this year alone? A lot of our total debt is due to your growth also---don't forget that. We suggested that they stop paying for capital expenditures this year---like the new BOS terminal (used by both of us---$1 billion), the new JFK terminal (again, used by both of us probably--another $1 billion), and your RJs. We aren't getting any of those RJs purchased this year---none. Would you like to help pay for your expansion? I didn't think so.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WorldSeries]

Until regional airline pilot salaries are better than you can get a Mcdonalds or Walmart without any education or training, I will vote NO for any type of concession. I would rather be furloughed again. If the airliners cant afford to operate with out concession then they do what they have to, furlough ,give away flying, cut back flying and when they can afford to pay us some thing decent at the regional level then we will come back.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Here's the approach to take:

Don't say no, they never do..

Say "maybe, we'll, see, we'll take that under advisement."

Management never says no - they just say maybe until you go looking for a wall to bang your head against.

Give 'em a taste of their own, saying assuring, calming things like: "We value our management and want them to have the best contract possible." Drag it out two years after the amendable date, too.

[/sarcasm]


Above all, STAY in the driver's seat - good luck,and we're all counting on you.

 

[WorldSeries]

i like 100LL idea..we should say maybe we will look at it and then delay and delay and delay

 

[jarhead]

GeneralLee

Those RJ's are making money for Delta, with the current CMR contract. Can you say the same for the mainline fleet?

 

[General Lee]

Jarhead,

You really didn't answer my question: would you help pay the debt incurred by the $1.3 billion worth of RJs bought this year alone? (For your use only)

As far as your airplanes only making money, I think that is wrong. We had a great Summer at Mainline also, and our INTL flights were packed. The problem we are having is the debt---not the size of aircraft. We are also bringing back some 737-200s from the desert, which also proves my point. The problem is not only caused by us, and your helpful RJs are actually more inefficient when it comes to the CASM factor, and that is also why Fred Reid is looking at larger planes, like 100 seaters. The argument that Comair/ASA is saving the day is done. This Summer proved that mainline jets also contributed to the bottomline. The debt problem, though, now must be shared by all of us, especially if your growth contributes to it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[skiddriver]

Jarhead,

How about your pilots paying for the debt incurred by the $1.2 billion worth of RJs being bought for YOU (not us) this year alone? A lot of our total debt is due to your growth also---don't forget that. We suggested that they stop paying for capital expenditures this year---like the new BOS terminal (used by both of us---$1 billion), the new JFK terminal (again, used by both of us probably--another $1 billion), and your RJs. We aren't getting any of those RJs purchased this year---none. Would you like to help pay for your expansion? I didn't think so.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Gen.

I usually just read your comments and breeze by. Some make sense, some are just polemic to feed your Comair hatred.

But this is just stupid....

How much are we willing to give up in pay for the RJ's Delta has bought?

Delta bought them because they make Delta money. They provide income (as operated by us) that they can't get from your pilot group. So your question is, how much are we willing to give up in pay so we can continue to make a profit when the mainline Delta pilots don't?

I think the answer will be, not much. Unless Delta gives in some other areas. You can figure out what those are. Bigger planes, more growth, etc.

Do you still think that's a good idea?

A couple of your guys broke the code earlier on. Lower costs at DCI = less need for Delta mainline flying. Inverting what Carrot Top would say, "Bad for you, bad for me."

Enjoy trying to stick it in our eye for some perceived gripe you have. This is serious and if you really want to see large jets with a really small "Comair" next to the boarding door, just keep it up. I think we have some folks that would fly a large jet for Delta minus 10% or so.

You don't have to be our friend. But we all hang together, or we all hang seperately.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Jarhead,
How about your pilots paying for the debt incurred by the $1.2 billion worth of RJs being bought for YOU (not us) this year alone? A lot of our total debt is due to your growth also---don't forget that. this year---like the new BOS terminal (used by both of us---$1 billion), the new JFK terminal (again, used by both of us probably--another $1 billion), and your RJs. We aren't getting any of those RJs purchased this year---none. Would you like to help pay for your expansion? I didn't think so.

Bye Bye--General Lee

It is hard for even me to beleive you are that clueless. Do you actually think Delta buys the airplanes ang "gives" them to us to use?? Good grief. Your not that dumb, are you?
And do you really think Delta lets us use the gates they own free? It is mind boggeling (spelling?) some of the stuff you come up with on this board just to make your case.


Please answer me. Does Delta supply the gates and airplanes to us free? Or do you think Comair pays for these things?

 

[General Lee]

Skiddriver,

Check out what he has to say:


"Enjoy trying to stick it in our eye for some perceived gripe you have. This is serious and if you really want to see large jets with a really small "Comair" next to the boarding door, just keep it up. I think we have some folks that would fly a large jet for Delta minus 10% or so."


Sounds like the next Freedom Air or Mesa.

Also, you guys will get nothing without Dalpa's approval. Your gripes about ASA/Comair saving Delta's can are over----this Summer proved that mainline jets can also help the bottom line and we are bringing back planes to prove it---the problem again I say is the debt, that you contribute to. I am not saying that you guys should contribute an equal amount with us---no way---but to try to hide out and pretend that your growth doesn't affect our debt load is ridiculous. But, I can understand your frustration about wanting bigger Delta-like planes, since an interview eventually will be tough to get and even harder probably to pass.
I bet we could do the same with your 70 seaters. Since your average 70 seat Captain is a 12 or 13 year guy probably, I bet the pay rate is high. Well, our furloughed pilots are 2-3 year guys that could use your contract and pay scale and cost 1/2 of what your guys cost per hour--using your pay scale. I bet the company would go for that, and guess what? We don't have to go to you and ask whether or not we can set up another DCI carrier---call it Dance---and receive more 70 seaters that Delta really wants anyways. Would we do that? Probably not, but I am trying to sway the people in the know. Maybe some will listen and we can get some of my furloughed friends back in the cockpit---and at the same time save some money for those debt payments.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Afellowaviator,

Delta (not Dalpa) owns you 100%. Let it go, bud. They own the gates, and your planes, and you. Delta pays for it----not Comair. They own your terminal, and your sims, and your academy. Time to let go. They decide what to do with you, and our contract , which they signed, gives them direction. Sorry bud.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jarhead]

Oh General, tsk tsk tsk. Delta Airlines also owns all the airplanes that mainline pilots fly as well. Somehow, you try to give the impression, that Dalpa runs the show, and that Dalpa is the imediate "supervisor" over the Comair entity. That's B.S. I could make the same argument that Delta Inc, could sh!tcan all "your" flying, and "give" it all to CMR. All flying entities that DAL owns, are run for, and by DAL. And yes, I know their are contracts with the individual entities, but that is another topic. DAL will do what it can do, to stay in the game, irrespective of what your "desires" or politics may be.