Comair / ASA Merger

[General Lee]

thesource,

That would be fine, as long as we could go back to them in the next downturn. I think our furloughs would love to fly them, but I actually hope to see them coming back alittle sooner--or atleast start to come back. It is only natural for our guys to fly the 100 seater since it is replaceing the current 100 seater (well, really 107 seater)--the 737-200.

Afellowaviator,

That is a good idea---do not screw over ASA. Atleast you are thinking like a team. Hopefully we can all be like that someday.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Every merger between two airlines that I have ever seen has some sort of fence agreement which restricts the bidding from one side to the other.

An ASA/Comair merge might, for example, have a three years fence. No Comair pilot could bid ATL or DFW until the fence is down. No ASA pilot could bid CVG (Comair all CVG, ALL the time!) in return.

This begs the question, why merge the seniority lists if there would, at least initially, be no change? I think that is the attitude of our MEC, since a merge would at first accomplish very little, they are not inclined to pay the exorbitant price that management would demand.

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

Here's an idea. Let's put the new 100 seaters at ASA and CMR and staff them with furloughed DELTA pilots then as Delta recalls them the aircraft stay at the WO carriers. Works on both sides and in the end Delta gets a less expensive 100 seater and we see some growth and end with a place where some of us older guys(37) could retire if the sun doesn't shine on us before we're too old !!

Not a bad thought at all as far as returning furloughed pilots, but it would create some excess pilots at mainline currently. For purely selfish reasons, I would prefer to see the 100 seaters stay where I want to go. The pay rate on them is pretty good at Delta, and more importantly it creates jobs at the higher bennie, better retirement level.

AFA said:

For any of you ASA pilots on this board I just wanted to let you know that there are several of us at Comair with the opinion that our MEC should tell mgt. that we will listen to their concerns, but ONLY after the ASA pilots have a new ratified working agreement.

I agree wholeheartedly.

--a concerned regional pilot

 

[AvJunke]

Afellowaviator,

That is a good idea---do not screw over ASA. Atleast you are thinking like a team. Hopefully we can all be like that someday.

Bye Bye--General Lee [/B][/QUOTE]


Just an observation from a bystander; Gen., how can you pretend to promote team play when your purpose in life is to stay on this forum to deride and threaten Comair pilots with their suspected inability to go to your "mothership"? It's all one family, right? Play nice kids.

 

[ICU]

Afellowaviator,

That is a good idea---do not screw over ASA. Atleast you are thinking like a team. Hopefully we can all be like that someday.

Bye Bye--General Lee [/B][/QUOTE]

General Lee
You obviously have know idea how full of your self you sound, if you do indeed work for big Delta as you profess to, then keep your pithy comments for the Delta board, where you might actually get someone that agrees with you.
I for one, am sick and tired of your pontifical advice which boarders on aristocracy. If I need your help I'll ask for it, but don't hold your breath. On second thoughts DO!
PS
(How about changing your rank to Private Lee to start with.)

 

[Bill Mostellar]

General Lee
You obviously have know idea how full of your self you sound, if you do indeed work for big Delta as you profess to, then keep your pithy comments for the Delta board, where you might actually get someone that agrees with you.
I for one, am sick and tired of your pontifical advice which boarders on aristocracy. If I need your help I'll ask for it, but don't hold your breath. On second thoughts DO!
PS
(How about changing your rank to Private Lee to start with.)

General Lee doesn't need me to answer for him, but I will since I've been a regular on this board since 1998 (Mark, has it really been that long?) and have seen many regulars come and go.

Your profile indicates you've only been here a little while. These forums are for the exchange of information, debate of current issues, and general entertainment of the easily amused. If you don't like what General Lee has to say, don't read his posts (you can set up an ignore list in your profile).

'General Lee' posted a couple of months ago that his name is a reference to The Dukes of Hazzard TV show from the 70's. If anything he should change his name to 'Daisy's Shorts' or 'The Jeep.' ;>

Take a deep breath, read some more posts and join the debate. Don't react emotionally and wish that someone will 'hold their breath' until you ask for help.

I wish you success!

 

[N2264J]

Obviously the only purpose these two quasi - separate airlines serve is to provide an end run around scope and provide leverage to whip saw organized labor.

As Surplus points out, nothing is gained in a CMR/ASA merger until the representational problem with ALPA is fixed and their MECs can negotiate directly with their real management. By the way, CMR/ASA pilots would have to pay dearly for a merger which accomplishes essentially nothing.

Keep in mind that it is not less painful for the cat to cut its tail off one inch at a time.

Now a merger between Delta, Comair and ASA would go a long way toward fixing a lot of fundamental representational problems and, I suppose, make the lawsuit moot. Well guess what, it's starting to look like all three MECs will have the opportunity to be in negotiations at the same time. And if Delta is really serious about cutting costs, they can start by trimming down on three redundant management teams.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Duane Woerth is supposed to be the guest of honor at the October 9th meeting of the Comair MEC. Something is up....

Any guesses?

 

[FLB717]

Guess's, Yes lots of them, some are true

 

[General Lee]

ICU,

Funny post. I am glad to see some flight attendants on this board, that might give us a different view of things. As far as the "family" is concerned here, I have always wanted everyone to "act" like a family---even though some choose to only do so with a hand out at the same time. I have been an "extreme" advocate of our furloughs, and I have fought verbally with many to try to help their cause. I have never "threatened" anyone, just warned them about probable reactions from our pilot group, and some of that may come true. I see and hear things everyday in the ATL crew lounge, and I express some of them on this open forum. The ASA pilots have treated our group as more of a family, and therefore I believe that they will have good things flow their way eventually, as far as Comair--I am not as certain. That is reality and I wish it could have been different.

Bill,

You don't have to make excuses for me, I am able to do that for myself. Some people really get wrapped up on this board, and I use it to get a GENERAL feeling of what is going on out there, and the latest rumors---even though they may be bogus. Other than that, I have fun with my wife, ride bikes, workout, and go to work and have fun. Yes, I have an opinion and it is worth the same as everyone elses---and people can ignore me and I think that would be great. Most don't though, due to the fact that I actually am aware of what is going on in this industry, and I have GENERAL feeling of what most, not all, Delta line pilots think. Take it for what it is worth.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[N2264J]

Duane Woerth is supposed to be the guest of honor at the October 9th meeting of the Comair MEC. Something is up....

Any guesses?

I have two guesses -

1) Nothing of substance will come of out of it but the suspense of seeing Duane Woerth and his entourage show up at the birthplace of the RJDC ought to be worth the price of admission. This sort of thing is the reason he makes more money than the President of the United States.

2) scopeCMRandASA is feverishly looking for his Comair Ops manual revision that contains the section on operating policy and procedures for Delta Shuttle flights.

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

Fins,

I don't think anything will come out of the DW appearance at the CMR MEC meeting. Very little can be said with the pending litigation. He may explain exactly what ALPA's stance is on the independent bargaining afforded to each MEC during negotiations, but I would be surprised if anything comes out of it. After all we have people like this at Comair:


n2264j:

2) scopeCMRandASA is feverishly looking for his Comair Ops manual revision that contains the section on operating policy and procedures for Delta Shuttle flights.

Some people just can't admit that they are wrong, even when they are proven wrong. Plus, he can't just leave it alone so it will die a peaceful death, like Surplus did when I proved him wrong.

--a concerned regional pilot

 

[ReportCanoa]

October 9th

You called it...

 

[Freebrd]

Old DW will give a speech in an attempt to convince the CMR pilots to give it up for Old Mother Delta (and DALPA) Good luck. Wish I could be there. DW has some balls though for showing up at CMR's house don't ya think?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Feebird : You might be right, another concern is that he is using the bully pulpit to place political pressure on the RJDC, since the lawsuit is inconveniently forcing ALPA to at least pay lip service to representation of ASA and Comair - plus it is interfering with some of the nastier things the Delta MEC might want to accomplish involving Comair and ASA.

I've been expecting ALPA to roll the big guns any time after the motion to dismiss failed. It is probably no coincidence that the status conference outlining the discovery portion of the litigation was last Friday. ALPA paid almost a million dollars to avoid opening the books in Miller v. ALPA, but RJDC litigation can not be settled with money. ALPA is unwilling to act within the confines of legal representational standards, so their only last option is a political attack.

It truly is a shame ALPA will not change course as we all race for the bottom to secure flying. Obviously the solution for all of us is a brand scope solution, but ALPA will not force the Delta MEC to work with the rest of the so called "family." So we continue on this destructive course.

~~~^~~~

 

[N2264J]

Some people just can't admit that they are wrong, even when they are proven wrong. Plus, he can't just leave it alone so it will die a peaceful death, like Surplus did when I proved him wrong.

--a concerned regional pilot

Well, while you're proving everybody wrong in your concerned and regional way, maybe you can walk me through this.

1) The Delta pilots thought the transfer of Shuttle flying to Comair was so egregious, ALPA sued Delta Air Lines in court to make it stop.

2) In the meantime, the Delta pilots, thinking it was so important, picketed LGA, BOS and DCA to demostrate their displeasure with management for transferring their flying to Comair.

3) After the Judge declared it a minor dispute and threw it out of court, the Delta pilots, hell bent for leather on this crusade, followed up with the grievance.

4) Then the grievance was withdrawn and subsequently the DMEC bargained the flying away?

So what do you think they got for it, better scope?

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

Re: Re: Comair / ASA Merger

Well, while you're proving everybody wrong in your concerned and regional way, maybe you can walk me through this.

1) The Delta pilots thought the transfer of Shuttle flying to Comair was so egregious, ALPA sued Delta Air Lines in court to make it stop.

2) In the meantime, the Delta pilots, thinking it was so important, picketed LGA, BOS and DCA to demostrate their displeasure with management for transferring their flying to Comair.

3) After the Judge declared it a minor dispute and threw it out of court, the Delta pilots, hell bent for leather on this crusade, followed up with the grievance.

4) Then the grievance was withdrawn and subsequently the DMEC bargained the flying away?

So what do you think they got for it, better scope?

I find it interesting that you take great delight in the contract violations of others. I followed this closely, when it happened. First, you were and are wrong. The judge declared it an internal dispute. He threw it back to the grievance process. Apparently, the company thought that they would lose, because the ceased and desisted, hence the grievance was withdrawn. You seem to try and take the fact that Comair is flying extra sections on the shuttle now as proof that you were right, when your case was based on old contract language which has subsequently changed. Your hard headedness over this minor issue is a symptom which carries through to other issues, and I mention it as proof that people like you here at Comair are the problem we have with Delta pilots' lack of respect for the entire group. Do I think they got better scope? Who are the ones suing ALPA? How is our scope looking lately? Yes, I think that they have enviable scope, and a VERY enviable contract. I'd swap spots with a furloughee in a heartbeat, and I will also be in that situation someday. Will you, or will you just keep throwing barbs at a brick wall to feed your ego?

--a concerned regional pilot

 

[N2264J]

I find it interesting that you take great delight in the contract violations of others...You seem to try and take the fact that Comair is flying extra sections on the shuttle now as proof that you were right, when your case was based on old contract language which has subsequently changed.

--a concerned regional pilot

Your words.

Maybe I'm not making myself clear. What I don't understand is: if the Delta pilots thought that transfer of flying was so important that they went to court to fight it, picketed the terminals to demostrate their displeasure, filed a grievance to prevent it - why did the Delta MEC bargain it away?

And you think my head is hard?

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

Re: Re: Comair / ASA Merger

Your words.

Maybe I'm not making myself clear. What I don't understand is: if the Delta pilots thought that transfer of flying was so important that they went to court to fight it, picketed the terminals to demostrate their displeasure, filed a grievance to prevent it - why did the Delta MEC bargain it away?

And you think my head is hard?

Here is the deal. My beef with you extends with your propensity to not admit you are wrong. This is classic RJDC stuff. Our battle is not why the Delta pilots chose not to protect their flying with regard to the shuttle. They clearly did not. I am not belaboring that point. You are right. I hope that serves yhour ego, you knopw, the same one that was incorrect about the whole ruling with the Delyta pilots' grievance with the shuttle flying under the old contract. It is NOT our original argument. You know it and I know it. Why do you think Surplus has disappeared into the woodwork. Yours is same ego who does not know its place with regard to a merged list, and even more importantly a flow of som etype. This is the only correspondence with which I wish to havewith you. You cannot admit to your ego nor your ignorance. Your is not unique, and yet you profess to assume that the Delta MEC is to blame for our problems. I pity you, S, and others on this board who profess to have more knowledge, couth, and strategy than out Delta bretherin. WE do not, and worse, do not KNOW that we do not.

--a concerned regional pilot

 

[Wacopilot]

DW isn't there for RJDC. RJDC has nothing to do with his showing up on the 9th. There is however a good number of reasons for him being there! We will find out by Friday why he is comming, you ain't seen nuthin yet my friends.

I like Cheese!