Comair Academy

[dime-a-dozen]

Are there any recent Comair Academy grads that can give me a heads up about the validity of their hiring-of-graduates claim, the value of the training/bridge program, and any lessons learned or "I should've done..."'s?

 

[cocknbull]

I got my instrument and commercial SEL there. I will tell you hands down it is one of the top schools in the country if not the top. It is not like your Part61 and some 141 schools were you can slip by with a C average. At Comair you will know your stuff or you will have a rough time. I have one regret and that is not staying there to instruct. At this point their are very few people getting interviews at 1000 total time or even 100 ME for that. I still have friends there and I here that they are flying 50 to 100 hrs a month depending on what section they are instructing.(COM, INST, PVT, etc...) They hire rate I would say is well below 97% this year. I would say it's at about 70% however some have found jobs at Chit and ASA. If I were on an interview board and I had to choose between a Comair grad with 1000/100 or a guy who trained at some no name flight school with 2000/200. I would choose the Comair grad. At this point I have had two airline interviews one with PSA and one with ACA.

 

[Hovernut]

Worked for me!

Went in with my PPL and got the rest there. Did the instructor thing and got hired by Comair at 1037/230. I ditto the previous. You'll learn your stuff and learn it well. Plenty of folks coming up behind me from the Academy, so it's still working! PM me if you want details/recommendations...I'll be glad to help!

I heard they're changing their name to "Delta Connection Academy," and having the students wear uniforms (bummer...shorts in summer was great!). Quite a few grads are getting jobs with Chatauqua and ACA, too, as well as Sky West and others.

 

[Rich Man]

Graduate clarification.

I'll go ahead and clarify what has been public knowledge since the beginning, but I had a student within the academy act like this was news after several months of being there.

A Comair Aviation Academy graduate means: A person that while holding all their ratings through CFI-I gets hired as an instructor and works for the Academy for at least 800Hrs. of Instruction Given, gets their MEI while in the process if he (She) didn't have it before getting hired and instructs for at least 50 Hrs. of twin time in Comair airplanes and Comair students.

Once you have fulfilled this portion of the agreement, they will schedule your interview with Comair airlines, usually within a month, 2 at the most of you completing this requirements.

Once you get to the interview (and this comes from the mouth of the interviewers themselves) you will talk your way out of a job. In their mind once you get to the interview the job is yours, they will ask you straight forward questions to determine whether you can work in a crew environment, and you will talk them into hiring you or not.

It is not that they choose between a CFI from the Academy and a CFI from the outside, nor between a 1000 TT pilot from the Academy and a 1000TT pilot from the outside. Right now as it is, the only 1000 TT pilots they hire are Academy grads, and for the most part the only people from the outside they hire is people with a LOT of very good experience. And at no point are you competing for a job against anybody else. Once you get your interview the job is yours unless you say something that makes them change their minds.

A Comair Aviation Academy graduate does not mean: A person who went through their program from private to CFI-ME, and spent several thousand $$ in the process. Yes, most of the Academy grads did do most of their training at the Academy, but some time ago, when the Academy had a disproportionate number of CFI’s per Student, and they needed more CFI’s they did hire a few Instructors from the outside. However since 2001 and before the industry changing events of September I don’t know of any outside hiring of CFI ‘s. I was lucky enough in 2000 to be one of the “outsiders” who was hired as a CFI, fulfilled the 800Hrs. Commitment, got an interview and a job offer from the airline. And like myself I know of several pilots in the Comair seniority list like that.

Bottom line, what I’m trying to get across is that being a student in the Academy will not make you a graduate, it will however make you a very good pilot, the level of pilots the Academy produces is actually very high. And to the best of my knowledge, since last June the Hiring rate of Academy Grads into Comair has been quite high.

Go to Comair for their training, but stay to instruct, that’s where it pays off.

Rich!

P.S. Can any other Comair Grad agree or disagree with me??

 

[jon210]

I will add that I started Comair Academy in June 2000. Of the 25 people who I started private with only 3 stayed on to instruct. What the salepeople tell you is quite a bit different than the reality of attending the school and the education is no better than the other big schools in Florida or for that matter the instruction you can get from a good cfi anywhere.

 

[ILS JNKY]

same

I, found the same to be true,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, after going round &round in the insturment course, i left and went some where else passed in 3 weeks ,,,, just finished my multi the other day,,,,,,,,,,,, since i have a nice amount of multi time , i will do my mei as my intial cfi ,,,,,,,,,,then the rest will follow,,,,


Go talk to a lot of schools and realize this it is a sales pitch and nothing else.

Go where you like the faa requierments that you will be tested on are standard,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

fly safe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[dime-a-dozen]

Great inputs.

What a tremendous range of experience; beyond any of my expectations. You guys are great. I'm beginning to see the profile I'd need to fit to make CAA a viable option. We'll see if I get enough financial latitude to make that happen, but equally nice to know that there are success stories evolving from other 141/61 procurement sources.

Any one heard of this abbreviated program in which a candidate enters CAA w/ no greater than a private ticket, goes through a 9 month "fast track," then right to a REGIONAL interview? Could be one of those "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably IS".

 

[cocknbull]

I had some friends who wanted to do the jet direct program, but I don't think the program ever got off the ground. I got hired by a regional with 1500 and 250 this fall without graduating from the academy. However all the other instructors I work with that are qualified can't even get an interview. The bottom line is that CAA can offer you a way in at low time which many other schools can't as of today. Even schools that offer bridge programs to other regionals. If you stick out your 800 dual given at the academy you "will" have an interview. No other school can give you that. At Comair it's easy to get a bad attitude since your treated like a real life airline pilot from day one and not the customer. If you do not choose a school that you "pay your way" in then you are looking at a long hard road. If this was 1999 I would say get your hours were ever and get them quik and get in. Today you need more then hours to get in.

 

[172driver]

Yes, they're trying to bring back the Jet Direct program which never really matured the first time around. Pay lots of money, get your commercial multi, fly a CRJ FTD, advanced systems training, etc. Then you get your airline interview. I'll leave it up to the experts to comment on the PFT issue, as I am a current employee.

Most of the input about the academy was accurate. There is a pretty good washout rate during training. However, most leave of their own accord rather than because they don't get hired as CFI's.

Many people are not equipped to succeed in a fast paced, high standard flight training environment. However, I think almost anyone can do well if they work hard enough. For some, this means an hour of studying a day. For others, it means 8 hrs.

Most who leave do so because they couldn't hang in there with the program. They chose not to put the in the effort that is required to complete their ratings at the price they expected to pay.

A few seem to have unlimited funding and choose to put in even less effort because cost provides them no motivation. They usually end up busting a lot of checkrides and take an unusually long time to complete the program. These are the only people I see not getting hired as CFI's.

A few more just don't have the brain power. But again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist, just a hard worker with some brain activity.

All of them end up blaming the school for their problems. See below. ILS...would you say you were a proficient insturment pilot while you were going round and round?

I, found the same to be true,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, after going round &round in the insturment course, i left and went some where else passed in 3 weeks ,,,, just finished my multi the other day,,,,,,,,,,,, since i have a nice amount of multi time , i will do my mei as my intial cfi ,,,,,,,,,,then the rest will follow,,,,

Most of the CFI's are still being hired at the airline. I'd say 70-80% is a fair estimate. The others, as mentioned, usually end up getting a second interview with Chatauqua. Also, all the CFI's interview at 1000/100 if their obligation of 800 dual given is met at this time. Obviously, if you come in with some time, you will go over 1000/100 before you meet that commitment.

It is in the interest of the academy to send you for an interview as soon as you're eligible. It frees up slots for the new CFI's.

 

[bobbysamd]

CAA culture

I suspect the stories above about how CAA treats its students/customers are true. I interviewed there for a CFI job twelve years ago. I realize that twelve years is a long time, but cultures don't change much over time. In any event, I paid my own way to travel two-thousand miles from Arizona to Sanford to attend the interview. The Chief Instructor gave me perhaps fifteen minutes. He did not even ask if I had a nice trip. My flight, in one the school's ratty 150s, was .9. I remember well how the instructor with whom I was flying, an older man, screamed and ranted at some 150 that was taxiing in to turn off his landing light. I was not even afforded the courtesy of a rejection letter. The atmosphere impressed me as being hostile. Rejection notwithstanding, the place did not impress me.

I had my interview at FSI three months later and was hired. It was a much tougher hiring process than Comair, with three writtens, a sim ride, a flight with an Assistant Chief Pilot, and interviews with the Chief Pilot and Center Manager. The place even put me up in one of the Swissair bungalows. Much better treatment. However, when I arrived the night before at Dispatch and introduced myself, I was asked why would I want to work there. Turned out to be a most cautionary comment.

I do not doubt that Comair produces well trained pilots. I appreciate Jim's comment about instructor rigidity. However, instructors who are hired by the school at which they trained tend to be rigid and dogmatic. Their school's viewpoint about flying is all they know about aviation. Outside instructors absolutely must adopt the school's standardization, but they offer a broader perspective than their home-grown counterparts.

An irony to this story is the Chief Pilot who interviewed me at Comair is currently the Chief Pilot at FSI! I do know that some of the good people who were at FSI when I was there are still there, which is a plus for the place, despite this individual.

PS-Yeah, the JetDirect is P-F-T, if not pay-for-interview.

You asked.

PPS-From the comments above, I gathered that CAA grads who put in their CFI time and get "the interview" have a lock on a job. If the questions are so straightforward, what responses do people give to lose this chance of a lifetime? I have my theories . . . .

 

[StrykerFL]

CAA, Ha!

I really don’t agree with anything that 172Driver has to say about Comair Aviation Academy. I completed the Inst-CFI program and I must say that I was very disappointed with the overall program. I declined the opportunity to interview for the CFI position because it is not the type of company that I wanted to work for. With that, nor was it the kind of atmosphere I would like to pass my knowledge on to my students. The guys that were enrolled with me that stayed to teach have been there for sometime and still have only 1 or 2 students.

“Most who leave do so because they couldn't hang in there with the program. They chose not to put the in the effort that is required to complete their ratings at the price they expected to pay.” C172driver

Well some of course cannot hang with the program. However most of the students I know, left simply for the obvious lack of customer service, the cocky, pompous arrogant-a$$ Flight Instructors, aging fleet of aircraft, and bloated training costs.

“All of them end up blaming the school for their problems.” C172driver

It would be different if the school were more interested in their customers and a little less interested in the bottom line and being “associated” with Delta Airlines. I left for that very reason. I did not like being known as a number with 50k sitting in a CAA bank account. Many of the students that I ran into that had left were mainly disappointed with the entire operation from the top down.

As far as the training was concerned, I agree that it was top notch. However I was fortunate enough to have some pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good instructors.

Also, to those who think you have to be a CFI there to be considered a graduate, you’re F’N crazy. I do consider myself a Comair graduate. Just because I didn’t stay and work there and complete their 800hr contract that does not take away from the fact that I was enrolled in the Instrument, Commercial, Multi-Engine, and CFI programs and did in fact complete them. Myself as well as the many others that completed the same programs are graduates as well. It even says so on all of my course completion certificates. You know the one with the big Delta Logo on it. It reads as such:

“This is to Certify that ********** Has successfully completed all stages, tests, and course requirements and has GRADUATED from the FAA approved Instrument, Commercial, Multi-Engine, or CFI Certification Course Conducted by CAA.”

Now where does it say that you must be a student and Flight Instructor there to be a graduate?

If I had it to do all over again I would have been a little more skeptical when I was getting the sales pitch.

 

[BellyFlyer]

John err..Stryker,

I can see how some would be dissappointed from a customer service standpoint. I also know that some customers make a point to be the "noise-makers" and rub people the wrong way.

I submit that a quality that CAA looks for in a student and future employee is the ability to get you desires and thoughts across and get along with others at the same time. Some people are seriously lacking in this department.

There is an expectation at CAA that you will conform to the system to a certain extent (a fact which is advertised to all incoming students). This is not a bad thing. Some people in the system can make the process difficult. A mature and aspiring individual can recognize this for what it is, and still achieve their desired outcome. Some have legitimate gripes. No reference to you, but too many just whine and leave when they encounter problems that often started developing in the mirror.

CAA has an excellent customer service department that really cares. If anyone is having problems, by all means contact them with sincerety and tact! They are there to help.

P.S. The flight instructor generalization was just immature and narrow-minded.

 

[172driver]

As far as the training was concerned, I agree that it was top notch.

What exactly were you looking for in a flight school besides top notch training? It's not a four star hotel.

left simply for the obvious lack of customer service, the cocky, pompous arrogant-a$$ Flight Instructors, aging fleet of aircraft, and bloated training costs

Can you cite any specific examples of poor customer service? Were the CFI's really like this or did you receive top notch training from good instructors as you said later? Did you not know the aircraft were old and what the training costs were before you signed up?

“All of them end up blaming the school for their problems.” C172driver

It would be different if the school were more interested in their customers and a little less interested in the bottom line and being “associated” with Delta Airlines. I left for that very reason. I did not like being known as a number with 50k sitting in a CAA bank account. Many of the students that I ran into that had left were mainly disappointed with the entire operation from the top down

Like I said...

Also, to those who think you have to be a CFI there to be considered a graduate, you’re F’N crazy. I do consider myself a Comair graduate. Just because I didn’t stay and work there and complete their 800hr contract that does not take away from the fact that I was enrolled in the Instrument, Commercial, Multi-Engine, and CFI programs and did in fact complete them. Myself as well as the many others that completed the same programs are graduates as well. It even says so on all of my course completion certificates. You know the one with the big Delta Logo on it. It reads as such:

I think the above posts were referring to graduates as those who were eligible for the airline interview. That would entail working the 800 hrs as a CFI. You are definitely a graduate of the courses you named but not of the entire program necessary for the interview.

 

[Palerider957]

Dime:

I looked at CAA a couple of years ago, I met with one of their "recruiters" who was more like a greasy used car salesman-- a real turn-off. This guy had the same chant over and over again, "Comair Acad. is the Harvard of the air." He must have said this 10 times. I don't know if this is representative of CAA, but it was enough to send me away.

I looked at FSI a few days later and decided that was the program for me (Fast track). The program was a cast-iron b1tch, but I did get the job. FSI people were extremely professional and thorough. I may have received an equally good education at CAA, but I felt my treatment was much better FSI.

Good lucl...

 

[jon210]

I don't know what you guys are smokin but CAA has had the worst costumer service of any business I have ever done business with. I believe that 75% of the people that went to school at the same time I did believe the the same thing. I think that is why a majority left and went to other schools. There were a few that could not handle it, but most where just fed up.