College Educated Pilots vs Management

[PCL_128]

what I want to know is how you can make so many comments on pilot wages when you are managements best friend? I mean F_ck? talk about givin the bad guys a trump card,,,I feel like
Mel Gibson did when his enemy took the helmet off and it was his buddy

Because I haven't been management's best friend in quite some time. Like I said, read some of the old PFT posts. I'm not proud of the GIA thing, but there's no way to undo it now. I simply didn't know any better at the time. Now I do. Past mistakes don't mean that I can't do my best to advance the profession now.

 

[apcooper]

Guys with degrees or substantial life experience tend to be more adaptive and flexible in the cockpit. Others tend to melt down when they need to do something that doesn't have a published checklist associated with it.

With all do respect I don't think you have any evidence to back up both those statements. As previous posters have stated many with Ph'd can not even do the simplist day to day tasks while someone with no college could easily "think outside the box" and solve problems. As PilotYIP stated at USA jet a lot of the non degree applicants score higher than the degree guys on basic cognitive and all around aptitude tests. I do not think there is any solid convincing evidence one way or another. I will agree that a degree is valuable if you lose your medical or if your airline collapses or furloughs you.

 

[SERPICO]

botz45,
Jesus is this a wind up. If you hold a college degree, I would not be that excited about it. A bachelors in The US is not a hard thing to attain. Yeah, buy a degree online and that will make you a fearful negotiator with any level of corporate America. We are all equally qualified. Your degree gives you only one advantage, getting an interview...maybe. Really, think about it, the most fearful union negotiators are not all college educated. They are professional negotiators and/or intimidators.
This is an endless debate, don't underestimate your "uneducated" work pals. People are as educated as they make themselves and you don't need to go to college to find out most things. A four year aviation degree is the last thing that would intimidate airline managment.
I know this was not the question, but have you ever flown with an MIT Phd with several thousand hours? I would go for a no-college stick rudder guy to be in the front of an aluminum tube, I know becuase I have flown with both.

 

[Yellow Snow]

I do not have a college degree. I was smart enough to know at eighteen that I would not have the focus to complete a degree and get good grades. This does not mean that I am not a smart person nor does it mean that I can not focus in pressure situations as was suggested by an earlier poster.

When I was in the Army I was a crewchief on an MH60 L blackhawk in a special operations unit. One night we had a mission to insert a group of operatives onto a rooftop in support on an anti-drug mission. The insertion became hot and we ended up taking some rounds through the acft and having to di di out pretty fast.

In reflecting on this and reading the previous posts about intelligence and grace under pressure I am compelled to try to put you into the position I was in as best as I can.

This was a fastrope operation. My first task was to call the pilots into a hover in a confined area with power lines on our right and a power pole in front. Once established in the hover I had to call height, drift, and clear the main and tail rotors. While doing the clearing I had to kick the rope out the door and make sure the crewchief on the other side was kicking the operators equipment out the other side. I then had to tap the operators out with the correct timing to make sure they didn't land on each other and get hurt. This was all accomplished in the dark at 0100 under NVGs. The entire insertion was completed in under twenty seconds and under fire.

Please do not try to make the case that a person who may not have had the money or drive to go to college is any less intelligent or unable to handle pressure because it simply isn't true.

With respect to negotiation and business accumen I have to say some of the wealthiest people I have ever had the pleasure to meet and work for were high school drop outs. It seems that sometimes in business it is helpful not to know all the reasons you can't succeed.

 

[Metro752]

I do not have a college degree. I was smart enough to know at eighteen that I would not have the focus to complete a degree and get good grades. This does not mean that I am not a smart person nor does it mean that I can not focus in pressure situations as was suggested by an earlier poster.

When I was in the Army I was a crewchief on an MH60 L blackhawk in a special operations unit. One night we had a mission to insert a group of operatives onto a rooftop in support on an anti-drug mission. The insertion became hot and we ended up taking some rounds through the acft and having to di di out pretty fast.

In reflecting on this and reading the previous posts about intelligence and grace under pressure I am compelled to try to put you into the position I was in as best as I can.

This was a fastrope operation. My first task was to call the pilots into a hover in a confined area with power lines on our right and a power pole in front. Once established in the hover I had to call height, drift, and clear the main and tail rotors. While doing the clearing I had to kick the rope out the door and make sure the crewchief on the other side was kicking the operators equipment out the other side. I then had to tap the operators out with the correct timing to make sure they didn't land on each other and get hurt. This was all accomplished in the dark at 0100 under NVGs. The entire insertion was completed in under twenty seconds and under fire.

Please do not try to make the case that a person who may not have had the money or drive to go to college is any less intelligent or unable to handle pressure because it simply isn't true.

With respect to negotiation and business accumen I have to say some of the wealthiest people I have ever had the pleasure to meet and work for were high school drop outs. It seems that sometimes in business it is helpful not to know all the reasons you can't succeed.

My neighbor is a big partner with Allstate Insurance, he was an anti-aircraft gunner in the Army. No HS Diploma. Worth millions, and doesn't look his age. Lucky guy!

 

[semperfido]

very interesting read, very interesting job and not to be disputed. However, if you are planning a career as a pro pilot i would reccomend a degree. not required to be an excellent pilot but necessary to be competitive.

I do not have a college degree. I was smart enough to know at eighteen that I would not have the focus to complete a degree and get good grades. This does not mean that I am not a smart person nor does it mean that I can not focus in pressure situations as was suggested by an earlier poster.

When I was in the Army I was a crewchief on an MH60 L blackhawk in a special operations unit. One night we had a mission to insert a group of operatives onto a rooftop in support on an anti-drug mission. The insertion became hot and we ended up taking some rounds through the acft and having to di di out pretty fast.

In reflecting on this and reading the previous posts about intelligence and grace under pressure I am compelled to try to put you into the position I was in as best as I can.

This was a fastrope operation. My first task was to call the pilots into a hover in a confined area with power lines on our right and a power pole in front. Once established in the hover I had to call height, drift, and clear the main and tail rotors. While doing the clearing I had to kick the rope out the door and make sure the crewchief on the other side was kicking the operators equipment out the other side. I then had to tap the operators out with the correct timing to make sure they didn't land on each other and get hurt. This was all accomplished in the dark at 0100 under NVGs. The entire insertion was completed in under twenty seconds and under fire.

Please do not try to make the case that a person who may not have had the money or drive to go to college is any less intelligent or unable to handle pressure because it simply isn't true.

With respect to negotiation and business accumen I have to say some of the wealthiest people I have ever had the pleasure to meet and work for were high school drop outs. It seems that sometimes in business it is helpful not to know all the reasons you can't succeed.

 

[enigma]

Anyone think there is any link between the lack of college degrees for many of today's piloting jobs and the dumbing down of the industry?

bozt45, Your whole point is starting from the premise that fewer of todays pilots are college educated that were yesterdays pilots. I don't believe that to be true. My perception, from observation of hiring stats etc, is that most of todays wannabe professional pilots are college educated.

Trust me, you will see more of this kind of thing unless the industry insists on some form of higher education to attain professional pilot positions. Otherwise, quit complaining about not being paid and treated like doctors and lawyers. They at least earned the term "white collar" by requiring an education for their professions. Believe me, airline management has figured out that it is in their best interest to keep the pilots under-educated. And they do this while getting many of them to think it's some sort of "favor" by making the hiring standards easier. They are NOT doing you any favors by making college degrees "preferred". If you were in management, which group of pilots would you rather negotiate a new contract against, GED/High School grads or B.S/M.S/PHDs?

I understand the point that I think you are attempting to make, and I agree in that management would rather negotiate with stupid pilots that negotiate with intelligent pilots, BUT management long ago figured out that intelligence /education is a secondary factor to greed and selfishness.

If management really wanted to screen for manipulatable employees, they would be screening against character, not for the lack of education.

enigma

 

[SWAnnabee]

Good points Enigma.