Colgan votes in ALPA!

[CopilotDoug]

It sure is.... and it is an easy life being a biased union buster... you just wait for the faults to show up and act like a "whistle blower". Hey look at me folks, look what I found! A union made a mistake!

Any human organization is going to have faults....

Colgan pilots achieved what they set out to do and you show to crap about the place....

Thanks for blowing the whistle.....

Rez, in all seriousness, does ALPA point out it's downsides and flaws when courting a prospect pilot group?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, in all seriousness, does ALPA point out it's downsides and flaws when courting a prospect pilot group?

Yes. I spoke directly with Colgan organizers about the campaign and what the issues were....

In addition,


Quote:

Originally Posted by coolyokeluke
Read "Flying the Line" sometime. Sure it's pro-labor but you might get an understanding of how things were before pilots had any representation.
.

Actually it isn't pro labor. George Hopkins initially wrote The Airline Pilots: A Study in Elite Unionization, 1971. He was asked by ALPA to write Flying the Line Vol. I, 1982. An incredible read with some dry spots. However required for anyone who gives 1.95% of their income.

Hopkins was asked again to write the second part, published in 2000, which included deregulation. You think Lorenzo was bad? Read about EL Cord. Also CR Smith whom AMR has named thier beloved museum after.


With copy of Vol II in hand turn to page XII of the Preface.

Hopkins, the books' author writes




Quote:

JJ O'Donnell [then ALPA's president] asked me to write another history commemorating the unions 50th anniversary. With the understanding that I would give ALPA its history "warts and all," I agreed.

The result was Flying the Line; the First Half Century of the Airline Pilots Association, published in 1982. My interpretation of ALPA's history was not censored. I work for Western Illionis University specifically and for an abstraction called history" generally. Although frankly nervous about the book, O'Donnell understood that prettified "court history" praising the King (so to speak) would be worthless. If pilots were to derive insight from my book, it had to be free to go wherever truth took it.

Hopkins placed his academic career on writing the truth and not being a chump.


Contact your LEC rep and ask for a copy. He might be able to get a complimentary copy. If not what is $10.

Then you can read about how pilots showed up for work, only to be met by an armed guard who escorted them to a company official. This company official handed the pilot both a resignation and an employment application....at a lower wage! (Vol I, chapter 6, page 48)

Coming to work nowadays isn't so bad.


Need more? Read 'When the Airlines Went to War' In this book you will read how Air Line Pilots disregarded thier labor contracts during WWII to 'transport the army and navy' and how the airlines trained Navigators, Pilots and mechanics by the thousands. The required rapid mobilzation of America's Air Power would have never happened if it wasn't for the US Airlines.

You'll earn a new respect for Airports like LGA and DCA, commonly refered to as sh1tholes by the ignorant. LGA and DCA have more history, culture and character than most of us....

Pride in being an Air Line Pilot is not popular right now, but you'll find it in these books...

 

[DX Rick]

Yes. I spoke directly with Colgan organizers about the campaign and what the issues were....

What all did you tell them? and did you make sure they relayed the same exact message to the pilot group? Or why not just tell the pilots yourself, just to make sure you're giving them all the honest facts about ALPA. You do want them to make an educated decision, right?

 

[N2264J]

It sure is....and it is an easy life being a biased union buster...

Me? Union buster? I think you may be overstating my awesome powers. I just got the same Email ALPA wired to the other 53,000 pilots so it's not exactly a secret.

No hyperbolic, hysterical Rez, I'm just some guy on an anonymous webboard. ALPA is doing this to itself.

 

[Nevets]

What all did you tell them? and did you make sure they relayed the same exact message to the pilot group? Or why not just tell the pilots yourself, just to make sure you're giving them all the honest facts about ALPA. You do want them to make an educated decision, right?

The downside to ALPA or any union is that its run by humans. That is why people say that a union is only as good as its membership. Unfortunately, this is why internal organization is always needed.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Me? Union buster? I think you may be overstating my awesome powers. I just got the same Email ALPA wired to the other 53,000 pilots so it's not exactly a secret.

No hyperbolic, hysterical Rez, I'm just some guy on an anonymous webboard. ALPA is doing this to itself.

awww don't be so modest... you are an internal union buster.....

Got RJDC?

That is like a scab saying.... who me? I am just trying to feed my family.....

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Me? Union buster?

Naah, not you, you're the other word, the one that rhymes with blab!

I think you may be overstating my awesome powers. I just got the same Email ALPA wired to the other 53,000 pilots so it's not exactly a secret.

After all.........You are the G.D. captain!:laugh:

No hyperbolic, hysterical Rez, I'm just some guy on an anonymous webboard. ALPA is doing this to itself.

Its amazing how you chicken ******************** rjdc guys hide behind your keyboard typing your continued propoganda.

 

[AftCG182]

Congrats! The Colgan pilot group might just start to get treated as well as you all deserve. Enjoy!

Dave (Fmr. Colgan Beech guy)

 

[suupah]

I thought this thread was about Colgan

 

[Nevets]

Left? Hardly. I'm one of the many AirTran pilots that are currently working to bring ALPA to AirTran. That tells you how much I believe in ALPA.

Speaking of which, I just read this:

ALPA Strongly Supports Merger with NPA
On December 16, ALPA’s Executive Council unanimously passed a resolution underscoring its wholehearted support for beginning work toward a merger agreement with the National Pilots Association (NPA), which represents the pilots at AirTran. ALPA leaders also met recently with the NPA Board of Directors and made a presentation regarding the benefits of membership in and representation by an international union devoted solely to pilots’ issues. “We appreciated the opportunity to meet with the National Pilots Association Board and ALPA is eager to begin working together with them toward a merger agreement,” said ALPA President Capt. John Prater. “If they elect to join ALPA, AirTran pilots would continue to make the decisions on the issues that affect them, but they would also gain access to unmatched resources and decades of experience in collective bargaining, contract enforcement, aviation safety, and many other aspects of the piloting profession.”
On December 12, the NPA board of Directors passed a resolution stating “the NPA BOD endorses a merger with ALPA, provided a favorable merger agreement is reached between ALPA and the NPA.” The NPA Board is also working with ALPA to arrange a series of road shows in January to provide an opportunity for AirTran pilots to learn more about the Association. The road shows will highlight the critical services ALPA provides to its members in the areas of collective bargaining and contract enforcement, aviation safety and security, economic and financial analysis, Aeromedical, government affairs, union administration, strategic planning, and retirement and insurance. NPA seeks a merger agreement in January.

In an ironic ejaculation of bad timing, the Atlas & Polar pilots announced yesterday that they're voting "no confidence" with their feet and leaving ALPA.

Man, it's got to be a hard life for the ALPA cheerleader.

Speaking of which, I just read this as well:

Atlas/Polar Leave ALPA
In a representation election for the combined group of Atlas Air and Polar Air Cargo pilots, the Teamsters were selected as their new collective bargaining agents following that organization’s filing of authorization cards and request for an NMB election. This result was not unexpected based on the contentious merger of the two carriers, the Polar Air Cargo strike in 2005—during and following which the two groups substantially disagreed on a number of issues—and the general pilot disunity that resulted. Regrettably, the IBT took advantage of such internal disputes and separated the Atlas and Polar crewmembers from their ALPA colleagues and a union with extensive professional resources, services, expertise, and influence focused solely on issues that affect the piloting profession. Unfortunately, pilots are less than 1 percent of the Teamster membership and have little influence in the general or strategic direction of that union, allocation of its resources, and the dedication of staff to pilot issues compared to the influence wielded by truck drivers and workers in warehouses, dairies, bakeries, breweries, food service, and laundries who dominate that union’s membership.
The election of ALPA by the pilots at Colgan—where the IBT also sought representation rights and where the IBT received less than 10 percent of the votes; the endorsement of ALPA rather than the Teamsters by the NPA Board; and the past decertification of the IBT at NetJets, UPS, ATA, and Evergreen shows that Teamster election rhetoric and promises typically give way to representation that does not benefit flight deck crewmembers.
We regret that ALPA insurance products, financial support, training programs, peer interaction, professional staff resources, and status and influence as the largest pilot union in the world will no longer be available to Atlas and Polar crewmembers. We look forward to the day when ALPA can again provide that support to them via membership in our union, which also provides them membership within the IFALPA structure, as Polar and Atlas crewmembers spend the majority of their time flying outside of this country.


I wonder if the IBT's airline division engineering and air safety or the IBT's airline division government affairs staff met with the Obama transition team? Or if the unionized pilots of [insert non-union carrier here] met with the Obama transition team on anything?

Obama Transition Team Consults ALPA on Aviation Security Priorities
On Thursday, ALPA president Capt. John Prater, together with ALPA Engineering and Air Safety and Government Affairs staff, discussed the Association’s aviation security priorities with a transition team representing the incoming Obama administration. Topics included pilot screening and access (i.e., CrewPASS), secondary barriers, FFDO program requirements, all-cargo domain security, and Transportation Security Administration performance. In addition to ALPA white papers on most of these subjects, ALPA representatives provided the transition team with detailed feedback on each issue. ALPA pilot leaders believe the incoming administration’s interest in pilots’ views bodes well for our future working relationship.

 

[frieswiththat]

I'm not necessarily a rah rah rah union guy, but I definitely see the benefit in having ALPA as a representation body. They specialize in aviation affairs, unlike IBT. No union is the end-all fix for all of our problems at the regional level, but we need to start somewhere.

Congratulations to all my bretheren and sisteren(?) at Colgan for a successful vote!

 

[Regul8r]

I wonder if the IBT's airline division engineering and air safety or the IBT's airline division government affairs staff met with the Obama transition team? Or if the unionized pilots of [insert non-union carrier here] met with the Obama transition team on anything?

...the implication that this will produce anything meaningful to pilots besides lip service is misleading.

 

[Nevets]

...the implication that this will produce anything meaningful to pilots besides lip service is misleading.

And how will not meeting with government officials benefit the safety of the profession? Even with a republican administration and congress in the past, ALPA has been able to get a lot of safety/security related legislation passed. And hence, I don't understand your cynicism on this issue.

 

[CopilotDoug]

You think Lorenzo was bad? Read about EL Cord. Also CR Smith whom AMR has named thier beloved museum after...

...Then you can read about how pilots showed up for work, only to be met by an armed guard who escorted them to a company official. This company official handed the pilot both a resignation and an employment application....at a lower wage! (Vol I, chapter 6, page 48)

Coming to work nowadays isn't so bad.


Need more? Read 'When the Airlines Went to War' In this book you will read how Air Line Pilots disregarded thier labor contracts during WWII to 'transport the army and navy' and how the airlines trained Navigators, Pilots and mechanics by the thousands. The required rapid mobilzation of America's Air Power would have never happened if it wasn't for the US Airlines.

You'll earn a new respect for Airports like LGA and DCA, commonly refered to as sh1tholes by the ignorant. LGA and DCA have more history, culture and character than most of us....

Pride in being an Air Line Pilot is not popular right now, but you'll find it in these books...

Does hearkening back to the days of yore for the sake of fanciful sentimentalization really apply in todays arena? True, we can't forget histories lessons, but what similarities do the first generation pilots share with today's cockpit manager? Being one of the fortunate mail pilots to survive, my Grandfather forgot more about flying then I'll ever know. Does today's iPod listening, Back Pack wearing "pilot" really appreciate the sacrifices made by their predecessors when they're inside a heated RJ cockpit plugging numbers into the FMS with one hand while holding a Starbucks in the other?

 

[DX Rick]

Contact your LEC rep and ask for a copy. He might be able to get a complimentary copy. If not what is $10.

Then you can read about how pilots showed up for work, only to be met by an armed guard who escorted them to a company official. This company official handed the pilot both a resignation and an employment application....at a lower wage! (Vol I, chapter 6, page 48)

Coming to work nowadays isn't so bad.


Need more? Read 'When the Airlines Went to War' In this book you will read how Air Line Pilots disregarded thier labor contracts during WWII to 'transport the army and navy' and how the airlines trained Navigators, Pilots and mechanics by the thousands. The required rapid mobilzation of America's Air Power would have never happened if it wasn't for the US Airlines.

You'll earn a new respect for Airports like LGA and DCA, commonly refered to as sh1tholes by the ignorant. LGA and DCA have more history, culture and character than most of us....

Pride in being an Air Line Pilot is not popular right now, but you'll find it in these books...

Does ALPA represent the average line pilot like they did in the past?
Many, many pilots will tell you NO!