Colgan Update!! 1-22-07

[suupah]

A significant percentage of the Pinnacle pilots are there for the longhaul. To protect that interest in their current collective bargaining Agreement (signed by Phil T) there is a 'scope' clause. Phil T signed an Agreement stating that ALL flying done by Pinnacle Corp would be performed by pilots on the Pinnacle seniority list. It doesn't matter if they are 172's at a flight school, Phil promised they would be flown by Pinnacle pilots.

Now he is directly threatening the Pinnacle pilots. In the release to all 'Pinnacle People' he stated clearly the only way people would move from one company to the other is as a new hire with no seniority or longevity of service. The threat to all Pinnacle pilots is clear. Cave in to management and give them the concessioary contract they want or your job will be as a new hire at the bottom of Colgan's list. For the senior half of the Pinnacle list this would be a life shattering event. The senior half of the Pinnacle list has also heard Phil T's 'promises' one too many times.

When Phil became CEO of Pinnacle in '97 it was then 'Express Airlines One' and consisted of 33 SF3's and 15 J31's. The crews were all outstation based. Sound familiar? Any one that doesn't think Phil can pull off his threat is ignoring history.

This is why the Pinnacle pilot group will respond to Phil's challenge. Phil has put them in a position where they have no choice. There certianly is no ill will towards the Colgan pilots. There is actually a lot of opportunity for them. There are no Pinnacle pilots that are interested in any kind of seat grap or any other subjugation of Colgan Pilots. They are only interested in keeping their lively hood, longevity and seniority that Pinnacle management wants to strip from them.

Am i missing something or is pinnacle about to lose their NW flying. as far as i understand things, Colgan pilots can't touch any flying that pinnacle does right now. That means that your flying remains just that and there is no risk of losing your job over Colgans growth.

 

[Smarta$$]

Am i missing something or is pinnacle about to lose their NW flying. as far as i understand things, Colgan pilots can't touch any flying that pinnacle does right now. That means that your flying remains just that and there is no risk of losing your job over Colgans growth.

On the other hand, How would you like it if someone came in and said "Colgan pilots get to keep their 49 planes, but all new growth will go to pinnacle until you agree to concesions". For this example, pretend Colgan was the bigger company that made enough money to buy Pinnacle and now the Colgan pilots get nothing for their investment.

 

[suupah]

On the other hand, How would you like it if someone came in and said "Colgan pilots get to keep their 49 planes, but all new growth will go to pinnacle until you agree to concesions". For this example, pretend Colgan was the bigger company that made enough money to buy Pinnacle and now the Colgan pilots get nothing for their investment.

I understand what you are saying. The original poster was talking about losing his job and having to start over at colgan. I don't see that as likely unless pinnacle is in danger of losing its flying say like in a expressjet type scenario. I think that would have more to do with the parent carrier.

In a bankrupt industry unions don't have that much power to determine pay rates.

What governs our salaries and work rules in the end is simple job market dynamics. When pilots are hard to find our QOL and pay will go up. Until then we are turning this bolt with a very short wrench.

 

[sinkrate]

Am i missing something or is pinnacle about to lose their NW flying. as far as i understand things, Colgan pilots can't touch any flying that pinnacle does right now. That means that your flying remains just that and there is no risk of losing your job over Colgans growth.

Pinnacle can move its flying to any successor/subsidiary it wants to. NW would not stop it. Five years ago Mesaba had over 100 aircraft - including 36 AVRO's and was an independent company. Now look at them. Now that NW has sold all of its Pinnacle stock and bought Mesaba all future regional growth for NW will go to Mesaba to raise its value in an IPO. Pinnacle is a no growth/no future airline from this point on - unless it participates in whatever new awards/aircraft types Corp secures. The first CRJ's delivered to Pinnacle start returning to the lessors in three years. That is where the 'whipsaw' will start, new AC types, and that is one of the reasons the scope provision is in the Agreement.

 

[suupah]

Pinnacle can move its flying to any successor/subsidiary it wants to. NW would not stop it. Five years ago Mesaba had over 100 aircraft - including 36 AVRO's and was an independent company. Now look at them. Now that NW has sold all of its Pinnacle stock and bought Mesaba all future regional growth for NW will go to Mesaba to raise its value in an IPO. Pinnacle is a no growth/no future airline from this point on - unless it participates in whatever new awards/aircraft types Corp secures. The first CRJ's delivered to Pinnacle start returning to the lessors in three years. That is where the 'whipsaw' will start, new AC types, and that is one of the reasons the scope provision is in the Agreement.

They can't allow any flying for NW by anyone other than Pinnacle pilots per the contract.

If the flying is outside NW it isn't pinnacle flying.

 

[PCL_128]

They can't allow any flying for NW by anyone other than Pinnacle pilots per the contract.

I don't know what you're getting at here. What contract? If you're referring to the contract between the company and NWA, then that contract doesn't prohibit Phil from transferring flying from one Pinnacle subsidiary to another. As long as Pinnacle Corp is doing the flying, NWA doesn't care. If you are referring to the PCL pilot CBA, then our agreement doesn't refer to NWA flying at all. Our agreement states that all "Company" flying must be done by pilots on the Pinnacle seniority list. The question is whether "company" refers to Pinnacle Airlines or Pinnacle Corp (holding company).

 

[TurboAWD]

i understand. the only carrier with a decent rate is comair.

Oh, I don't know, Air Wisconsin, Horizon, and ExpressJet see to have pretty decent (for "small jet/regional" airline) contracts.

Hmm, they are all Union too. 3 out of the 4 ALPA.

Hmmmmmm.....


Turbo

 

[TurboAWD]

What governs our salaries and work rules in the end is simple job market dynamics. When pilots are hard to find our QOL and pay will go up. Until then we are turning this bolt with a very short wrench.

Not completely, thanks to Collective Bargaining Agreements (although politicians have been trying to change this for quite some time now).

Turbo

 

[suupah]

I don't know what you're getting at here. What contract? If you're referring to the contract between the company and NWA, then that contract doesn't prohibit Phil from transferring flying from one Pinnacle subsidiary to another. As long as Pinnacle Corp is doing the flying, NWA doesn't care. If you are referring to the PCL pilot CBA, then our agreement doesn't refer to NWA flying at all. Our agreement states that all "Company" flying must be done by pilots on the Pinnacle seniority list. The question is whether "company" refers to Pinnacle Airlines or Pinnacle Corp (holding company).

alright, i have not read your cba. i am going by what phil said which is that all NWA flying must be done by pinnacle pilots. maybe his legal advisors interpret "company" as meaning NWA. who knows.

These guys don't really care who is doing the flying as long as they are getting fat rich off of it.

 

[PCL_128]

alright, i have not read your cba. i am going by what phil said...

I'm just going to stop you right there. If Phil's lips are moving, then he's lying. You'll become accustomed to it pretty quickly.