Colgan Q 400 pay

[70-SS]

Colgan management says their employees/pilots are above average but they come in below average Q400 pay.

Why is that?

Why can't you pay close to what Horizon pays?

 

[jellynuts]

ya they're above average at taking it up the arss

 

[YMICFI]

ALPA Contract

Colgan management says their employees/pilots are above average but they come in below average Q400 pay.

Why is that?

Why can't you pay close to what Horizon pays?

That is something that needs to be looked at in the first contract. Of course, that is if ALPA is voted in.

Otherwise we will have to settle for whatever is offered or find a job somewhere else. I have heard that management has been saying that lately....if you don't like it, work somewhere else.

I do believe they are going to have a hard time staffing the Q with the Newark base and the pay.

That is the pay that was offered, I believe, because they thought we'd go for it. They didn't anticipate the backlash and the ALPA Organizing Committee organizing the pilot group so quickly.

 

[BirdCatcher]

Colgan management says their employees/pilots are above average but they come in below average Q400 pay.

Why is that?

Why can't you pay close to what Horizon pays?

They claim it is an average rate. They came up with it by taking payscales from companies who do not operate 70 seat turboprops but have a payscale. They also dropped Horizon and Mesa from the average. The problem is it wasn't the average of what pilots are ACTUALLY being payed to operated 70 seaters. They made the numbers work for them.

We have a great group of hardworking professionals who deserve to to be compensated and treated accordingly for what we accomplish on a day to day basis.

We also deserve to know when our base is closing and anything else that effects us in a timely manner.

Those who stand for nothing, fall for anything.

 

[WSurf]

Those who stand for nothing, fall for anything.

Damn, I like that! Can I use it, or is it already trademarked?

 

[BirdCatcher]

Damn, I like that! Can I use it, or is it already trademarked?

Sure makes one think doesn't it? It was said by one of our founding fathers Alexander Hamilton

 

[suupah]

Unfortunately we are only worth what we are willing to work for.

 

[johnsonrod]

Yeah, but those Colgan Q400 pilots will have the distinct pleasure of living near and working from beautiful EWR!!!!!!!!! You can find a ghetto home cheap there and your salary could go a long way in the area....

Remember this statement: You don't get what you deserve, you get what you NEGOTIATE. That is why a union can be very helpful.

 

[Prop2Jet]

I love being average. My pee pee is average, my IQ is average, my waist is average, my hair is average.... Why not make average pay for my average bank account.....

Be average, it pays in the long run! hahahahh

NOT

 

[Kream926]

I love being average. My pee pee is average, my IQ is average, my waist is average, my hair is average.... Why not make average pay for my average bank account.....

Be average, it pays in the long run! hahahahh

NOT

for someone who doesn't work at colgan you sure are active on all these cjc threads....

 

[vectorvictor]

Here's a thought. Instead of worrying about the average.......be above average...

Pay above average wages to your pilots and mechanics. Hire and retain the best and most highly motivated group of people you can find. Weed out the losers because everyone will WANT to work for you. Offer on-time incentives like Southwest and save money on fuel as your pilot group is more highly rewarded to get your planes to their destination ahead of schedule, instead of pulling back the torques to make sure you overblock.

Watch as your airline provides ABOVE average completion factors and on-time performance because your employeess are enthusiastic about their job and the company bottom line.

Save all the money you are now throwing away retraining pilots and mechanics trying to keep up with attrition.

Save all the money you are throwing away in pilot and mechanic recruitment.

Setting the bar at being average is like taking your sister (or brother) to the prom.

 

[Prop2Jet]

Hey Creme Puff, you're right I am active for CJ. I do work here! Very observant..... you should be a weather man with your skills!

 

[Kream926]

its gonna rain

 

[Beech Balls]

I THINK THIS PAY IS SHAMEFUL.
I HOPE THE COLGANS ARE READING THIS STUFF, (apparently they do) AND I HOPE THEY RECONSIDER.
However, I WILL be going to this Q400, if only for more money, cuz I don't make enough where I am now. Pathetic isn't it.

 

[70-SS]

Here's a thought. Instead of worrying about the average.......be above average...

Pay above average wages to your pilots and mechanics. Hire and retain the best and most highly motivated group of people you can find. Weed out the losers because everyone will WANT to work for you. Offer on-time incentives like Southwest and save money on fuel as your pilot group is more highly rewarded to get your planes to their destination ahead of schedule, instead of pulling back the torques to make sure you overblock.

Watch as your airline provides ABOVE average completion factors and on-time performance because your employeess are enthusiastic about their job and the company bottom line.

Save all the money you are now throwing away retraining pilots and mechanics trying to keep up with attrition.

Save all the money you are throwing away in pilot and mechanic recruitment.

Setting the bar at being average is like taking your sister (or brother) to the prom.

Can you sent that to HEF. That is the smartest thing I have heard in a long time!!!!!!!!

Did you read that quote Management?????

 

[70-SS]

I THINK THIS PAY IS SHAMEFUL.
I HOPE THE COLGANS ARE READING THIS STUFF, (apparently they do) AND I HOPE THEY RECONSIDER.
However, I WILL be going to this Q400, if only for more money, cuz I don't make enough where I am now. Pathetic isn't it.

What would happen if no one bid the Q?

 

[ex j-41]

But management thinks like this...

They can make a lot of money if they work hard and do whats right. ie: Be above average.

or

They can make a little bit of money and not have to do crap.
ie: Average.

What do you think those lazy ba star s will do?

 

[CFI2766]

Here's a thought. Instead of worrying about the average.......be above average...

Pay above average wages to your pilots and mechanics. Hire and retain the best and most highly motivated group of people you can find. Weed out the losers because everyone will WANT to work for you. Offer on-time incentives like Southwest and save money on fuel as your pilot group is more highly rewarded to get your planes to their destination ahead of schedule, instead of pulling back the torques to make sure you overblock.

Watch as your airline provides ABOVE average completion factors and on-time performance because your employeess are enthusiastic about their job and the company bottom line.

Save all the money you are now throwing away retraining pilots and mechanics trying to keep up with attrition.

Save all the money you are throwing away in pilot and mechanic recruitment.

Setting the bar at being average is like taking your sister (or brother) to the prom.

I LOVE this idea. I wish it could work.

Unfortunatetly, the flying consumer looks at the price of the ticket first and foremost. You could have the best airline in the entire world by any logical, quantifiable metric, but if that airline consistently has ticket prices just one dollar above the competition, it will go out of business. Clean, on-time flights, that serve tasty meals, with happy, productive employees, are all well and good to the passenger, but what really matters to them is the final price of the ticket.

Pulling the torques/throttles back in flight is simply a rational, logical reaction on the part of the pilots to the predicament they are placed in by the flying public.

 

[CFI2766]

For this profession to again be attractive to prospective pilots, one or both of two things must occur.

FIRST: The portion of the overall operating revenue of the airline industry, on an airline by airline basis, that is allocated to pilot salaries must increase. Yes, we enjoy our jobs. However, for it to remain the highly sought after, lucrative career option that it once was, drawing only the best and the brightest, the rewards need to be more than intrinsic.
Assuming no other changes, this means that the portion of the operating revenue that is allocated to other work groups needs to decrease. Primarily, the folks who manage the airline should not be making top tier Wall Street CEO pay when their airlines are making miniature profit margins. At very most, the CEO of the company should earn no more than twice what the most senior line flying pilot makes. (CEO pay in all of corporate America is way out of control, but that's fodder for a different post.) Also, painfully, the amount of money going to mechanics, dispatchers, other ground personnel, and especially flight attendants MUST be decreased. Helpful, yes, but none of these folks are as directly responsible for the operation of the airline as the two individuals in the front of the aircraft. Flame away, but do so while trying to dispute the logic of this post.


Second: What is accepted as a fair price for airfare needs to change in the eyes of the consumer. Short of a major crash with massive fatalities at one of the carriers that exists on the super-duper low fares, I don't see this happening. [I don't wish this to happen.]
Automotive Gasoline was about a buck less than ten years ago, yet is close to $3 per gallon in most parts of the country as of the time that I write this. The country cannot exist without gasoline, so we pay the $3 per gallon. I would submit that the country can not exist without air travel; why then, do we not increase the price of air travel accordingly? Big oil companies are making record profits, why shouldn't the airlines, a historically underperforming sector of the economy, do the same? (For the record, I know that I am grossly simplifying several economic concepts here, but I am trying to make a point.)

 

[suupah]

Also, painfully, the amount of money going to mechanics, dispatchers, other ground personnel, and especially flight attendants MUST be decreased. Helpful, yes, but none of these folks are as directly responsible for the operation of the airline as the two individuals in the front of the aircraft.

The plane does not move without mechanics, dispatchers and flight attendants either. Good flight attendants brings good customers. Good mechanics keeps airplanes flying. They are all worth the money it takes to get the cream of the crop.

However joe public only cares about ticket cost. And joe management only cares about stock price. So Joe pilot/mechanic and jane (sometimes joe) flight attendant will be paid the LOWEST possible wage that you can get a "qualified" person to do the job for.

 

[suupah]

Automotive Gasoline was about a buck less than ten years ago, yet is close to $3 per gallon in most parts of the country as of the time that I write this. The country cannot exist without gasoline, so we pay the $3 per gallon. I would submit that the country can not exist without air travel; why then, do we not increase the price of air travel accordingly? Big oil companies are making record profits, why shouldn't the airlines, a historically underperforming sector of the economy, do the same?

Supply and demand determines ticket price not cost.

 

[Beech Balls]

What would happen if no one bid the Q?

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone would NOT take this opportunity to fly something cool and new and rare...but if we all boycotted it.....then they'd be up ******************** creek with Pinnacle. But they'd find someone off the street who would fly it for a fraction of a peanut....
.... as opposed to our whole peanut.

 

[Fred Rogers]

I LOVE this idea. I wish it could work.

Unfortunatetly, the flying consumer looks at the price of the ticket first and foremost. You could have the best airline in the entire world by any logical, quantifiable metric, but if that airline consistently has ticket prices just one dollar above the competition, it will go out of business. Clean, on-time flights, that serve tasty meals, with happy, productive employees, are all well and good to the passenger, but what really matters to them is the final price of the ticket.

Pulling the torques/throttles back in flight is simply a rational, logical reaction on the part of the pilots to the predicament they are placed in by the flying public.

I have made this point before and I guess I'll make it again. Why are pilots banging down the door of one of the lowest cost carriers in the U.S.?

If ticket prices dictated how much a pilot is paid, like you say, then why does a low cost carrier have one of the highest paid pilot groups, and a workforce (from those that I have spoken to) which the company bends over backwards for.

WHAT IS THE CATCH? WHY are the other airlines "unable" to do this?


Oh, P.S. Colgan Management, this well known low cost carrier is HIGHLY competetive all while having a union on property. Try again.

 

[Fred Rogers]

What would happen if no one bid the Q?

I have said before that this is a great concept but impossible in real life. No matter how dedicated your group is to raising the bar at your airline, and this is the type of action it would take, there is always someone who will fly that thing cheaper.

Even if it means a first officer with 250hrs and the ink drying on his commercial certificate, and a captain with 1,500 hours on his brand new ATP who had no chance of upgrade in a saab, that airplane has a crew who will work for $20 per hour.

This is why we have unions.

 

[Yodafly]

the rate for the Q sucks, they got to do better

 

[Fred Rogers]

the rate for the Q sucks, they got to do better

Not if they can put people in the cockpit they don't.

Not if they are not contractually obligated to do better.

They could hire EVERYONE off the street to fly the Q-400 if they wanted to. What are we going to say about it?

Right now, NOTHING!

After August 21st??? We'll have to see how the vote goes.

Make sure to vote! and VOTE YES!!!

www.alpa.org/colgan

 

[vectorvictor]

I LOVE this idea. I wish it could work.

Unfortunatetly, the flying consumer looks at the price of the ticket first and foremost. You could have the best airline in the entire world by any logical, quantifiable metric, but if that airline consistently has ticket prices just one dollar above the competition, it will go out of business. Clean, on-time flights, that serve tasty meals, with happy, productive employees, are all well and good to the passenger, but what really matters to them is the final price of the ticket.

Pulling the torques/throttles back in flight is simply a rational, logical reaction on the part of the pilots to the predicament they are placed in by the flying public.

Thanks for your support. I think you might have missed my point a bit. What you are saying is 100% true. In a pure commodity market providing a service or a good at a lower business cost yields market share and profit. In any commodity process however there are skilled operators where spending money to get the BEST operator yields long-term savings as a result of an overall DECREASED operating cost. (That's where you and I come in to the picture.)

Take Soutwest for example...a bit of a circus sideshow with an airplane to some (cattle style boarding, flight attendants wearing khaki shorts, no luggage transfer, all one airplane type, avoid crowded airports, etc...) but the reality is they operate in this manner to keep down costs. Ironically their pilot group is VERY WELL paid. I don't think it is a coincidence. In the long run compensating their pilots very fairly encourages them to get the job done and in the end both the company and the employee group wins. A little more irony is that their pilots are represented and my understanding is that the labor group works VERY well with the managment group.

To your last point...I hate people that milk the clock. How would you like it if your dentist dragged his feet through your next root canal?
Food for thought.....

 

[DoinTime]

Ironically their pilot group is VERY WELL paid. I don't think it is a coincidence.

Wind the clock back 7 years and the SWA guys were not very well paid (in terms of salary anyway). The reason SWA pilots are now well paid is because they didn't have their contract gutted in bankruptcy courts like most others. If you eliminate the latest industry downturn and the concessions the Legacy pilots took SWA pilots would still be below par in terms of hourly pay.

 

[rhino3040]

I'm so sick of busting my arse and getting paid absolute crap. Making sure customers are happy ontime, helping meet close connections is always one of my priorities. But I will tell you this, after I open my payroll enevelope and un-fold that wellfare check of pay, I frickin frown, pace a little and wonder what I was thinking coming to this company. I'm soooo tired of it: 16 hour duty days one day then 15 the next, one day off with a month shift, the previous month all screwed up because they didn't pay you for half what you were originally paired for. I'm SICK of it!! (Just closed a window for airlineapps)

 

[On Your Six]

Why go to Colgan when plenty of jet operators are hiring? Why stay at Colgan if you are a junior FO?

Is the upgrade time that much faster at Colgan due to attrition?