Colgan Q 400 pay

[suupah]

Automotive Gasoline was about a buck less than ten years ago, yet is close to $3 per gallon in most parts of the country as of the time that I write this. The country cannot exist without gasoline, so we pay the $3 per gallon. I would submit that the country can not exist without air travel; why then, do we not increase the price of air travel accordingly? Big oil companies are making record profits, why shouldn't the airlines, a historically underperforming sector of the economy, do the same?

Supply and demand determines ticket price not cost.

 

[Beech Balls]

What would happen if no one bid the Q?

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone would NOT take this opportunity to fly something cool and new and rare...but if we all boycotted it.....then they'd be up ******************** creek with Pinnacle. But they'd find someone off the street who would fly it for a fraction of a peanut....
.... as opposed to our whole peanut.

 

[Fred Rogers]

I LOVE this idea. I wish it could work.

Unfortunatetly, the flying consumer looks at the price of the ticket first and foremost. You could have the best airline in the entire world by any logical, quantifiable metric, but if that airline consistently has ticket prices just one dollar above the competition, it will go out of business. Clean, on-time flights, that serve tasty meals, with happy, productive employees, are all well and good to the passenger, but what really matters to them is the final price of the ticket.

Pulling the torques/throttles back in flight is simply a rational, logical reaction on the part of the pilots to the predicament they are placed in by the flying public.

I have made this point before and I guess I'll make it again. Why are pilots banging down the door of one of the lowest cost carriers in the U.S.?

If ticket prices dictated how much a pilot is paid, like you say, then why does a low cost carrier have one of the highest paid pilot groups, and a workforce (from those that I have spoken to) which the company bends over backwards for.

WHAT IS THE CATCH? WHY are the other airlines "unable" to do this?


Oh, P.S. Colgan Management, this well known low cost carrier is HIGHLY competetive all while having a union on property. Try again.

 

[Fred Rogers]

What would happen if no one bid the Q?

I have said before that this is a great concept but impossible in real life. No matter how dedicated your group is to raising the bar at your airline, and this is the type of action it would take, there is always someone who will fly that thing cheaper.

Even if it means a first officer with 250hrs and the ink drying on his commercial certificate, and a captain with 1,500 hours on his brand new ATP who had no chance of upgrade in a saab, that airplane has a crew who will work for $20 per hour.

This is why we have unions.

 

[Yodafly]

the rate for the Q sucks, they got to do better

 

[Fred Rogers]

the rate for the Q sucks, they got to do better

Not if they can put people in the cockpit they don't.

Not if they are not contractually obligated to do better.

They could hire EVERYONE off the street to fly the Q-400 if they wanted to. What are we going to say about it?

Right now, NOTHING!

After August 21st??? We'll have to see how the vote goes.

Make sure to vote! and VOTE YES!!!

www.alpa.org/colgan

 

[vectorvictor]

I LOVE this idea. I wish it could work.

Unfortunatetly, the flying consumer looks at the price of the ticket first and foremost. You could have the best airline in the entire world by any logical, quantifiable metric, but if that airline consistently has ticket prices just one dollar above the competition, it will go out of business. Clean, on-time flights, that serve tasty meals, with happy, productive employees, are all well and good to the passenger, but what really matters to them is the final price of the ticket.

Pulling the torques/throttles back in flight is simply a rational, logical reaction on the part of the pilots to the predicament they are placed in by the flying public.

Thanks for your support. I think you might have missed my point a bit. What you are saying is 100% true. In a pure commodity market providing a service or a good at a lower business cost yields market share and profit. In any commodity process however there are skilled operators where spending money to get the BEST operator yields long-term savings as a result of an overall DECREASED operating cost. (That's where you and I come in to the picture.)

Take Soutwest for example...a bit of a circus sideshow with an airplane to some (cattle style boarding, flight attendants wearing khaki shorts, no luggage transfer, all one airplane type, avoid crowded airports, etc...) but the reality is they operate in this manner to keep down costs. Ironically their pilot group is VERY WELL paid. I don't think it is a coincidence. In the long run compensating their pilots very fairly encourages them to get the job done and in the end both the company and the employee group wins. A little more irony is that their pilots are represented and my understanding is that the labor group works VERY well with the managment group.

To your last point...I hate people that milk the clock. How would you like it if your dentist dragged his feet through your next root canal?
Food for thought.....

 

[DoinTime]

Ironically their pilot group is VERY WELL paid. I don't think it is a coincidence.

Wind the clock back 7 years and the SWA guys were not very well paid (in terms of salary anyway). The reason SWA pilots are now well paid is because they didn't have their contract gutted in bankruptcy courts like most others. If you eliminate the latest industry downturn and the concessions the Legacy pilots took SWA pilots would still be below par in terms of hourly pay.

 

[rhino3040]

I'm so sick of busting my arse and getting paid absolute crap. Making sure customers are happy ontime, helping meet close connections is always one of my priorities. But I will tell you this, after I open my payroll enevelope and un-fold that wellfare check of pay, I frickin frown, pace a little and wonder what I was thinking coming to this company. I'm soooo tired of it: 16 hour duty days one day then 15 the next, one day off with a month shift, the previous month all screwed up because they didn't pay you for half what you were originally paired for. I'm SICK of it!! (Just closed a window for airlineapps)

 

[On Your Six]

Why go to Colgan when plenty of jet operators are hiring? Why stay at Colgan if you are a junior FO?

Is the upgrade time that much faster at Colgan due to attrition?

 

[vectorvictor]

Wind the clock back 7 years and the SWA guys were not very well paid (in terms of salary anyway). The reason SWA pilots are now well paid is because they didn't have their contract gutted in bankruptcy courts like most others. If you eliminate the latest industry downturn and the concessions the Legacy pilots took SWA pilots would still be below par in terms of hourly pay.

You are right, but they didn't get their contract gutted because their was no reason for their airline to go into bankruptcy. Its a different argument as to why they avoided bankruptcy (good business marketing plan, smart fuel hedging, low operating cost) but any way you cut it up until recently they were the only folks managing to make a buck and they did that through the downturn.

The Legacy business plans centered on high profit first class seats sold at premiums on short notice. These were the 5k walk up fares to go to LA from NY to go to visit that big customer. Companys won't pay it anymore. I can remember using travel services in my former life and never asking the fare. I was more concerned with the number of miles I was earning. Now folks shop for tickets on priceline even in the business sector. The economy passenger was a break-even weight and balance requirement. Now you have to make money on those same economy passengers to survive. Southwest pilots are paid what they are paid because their company manages to do it. I think the pilot pay rates and fair treatment of their employees is part of their success formula.

 

[Grey Ghost]

Unfortunately we are only worth what we are willing to work for.

Suupah said it best!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Prop2Jet]

love the pics grey!!!!!!

 

[DoinTime]

Southwest pilots are paid what they are paid because their company manages to do it.

SWA pilots are paid what they are paid because thats what their contract dictates. In looking at their declining profits over the past couple years they appear to feeling the strain. For the first 30 years of their existance a big part of the "Southwest model" was payrates for all of their employees that was subpar. Profit sharing made up the difference and a good working environment kept employees content with average.

Going forward SWA is going to have a difficult time being so profitable without the "labor adjustment" that everyone competing with SWA got to take advantange of. Having the industry's best compensated employees is teritory they have never been on. It will be interesting to see how they get out of it.

 

[Grey Ghost]

Colgan should get a bridge program started with Sheble aviation!!!!:smash:

 

[Grey Ghost]

is bubba still around?

 

[Fred Rogers]

It will be interesting to see how they get out of it.

Hopefully we can all "take it back" together and they won't have to worry about it.

GGhost- Your aviatars are inspiring!

 

[Grey Ghost]

Ahhhh! thank you!!!

 

[Mr Wu]

Sep'n that ain't Mikey...

 

[rhino3040]

Unfortunately we are only worth what we are willing to work for.

Just got done riding jumpseat with Air Wisky and the captain asked me what a 4th year captain on the Q would make. and I replied with the answer he, I shat you not, choked on his coffee and said you fly that thing for that much your nothing more than a GOJET driver....He's gotta point. I'm just embarrassed!