Colgan/PCL Coffee Talk.. (Speculation)

[dingo222]

Here's a thought after a few brewski's:

These thoughts are based on the obvious, not the rumors....

Fact 1: We know Colgan can't fully staff the Q400 at this point. We are losing captains left and right to normal attrition. Colgan captains are geting hired left and right. Colgan recruiting has done a great job filling the FO void as obvious by the lack of open FO time. But the Fact remains, we are way short on captains on all 3 airframes.

Fact 2: We will start staffing the Q400 before any union contract takes place that either a) puts fences between the pilot groups or b) merges them.

So that being said, will PCL pilots be asked to fill the void and fly Colgan planes????

Think about it. Colgan can't do it. PCL has junior captains on reserve right now. PCL corp spent bucu dolla on those q400's and they will not sit idle. IF colgan can't produce the pilots, will PCL corp mgmt offer PCL airlines pilots the choice to sit reserve or to hold a line flying a q400 for colgan? There is nothing stoping PCL Mgmt from doing this, and ALPA wouldn't stop it because according to contract all new flying should go to PCL pilots.

I have several friends that are PCL captains and Fo's and this is a a hot topic. East coat base; chance to get off reserve and hold a line.

Coffee talk, talk amongst yourselves............

 

[Sawmill]

Here's a thought after a few brewski's:

These thoughts are based on the obvious, not the rumors....

Fact 1: We know Colgan can't fully staff the Q400 at this point. We are losing captains left and right to normal attrition. Colgan captains are geting hired left and right. Colgan recruiting has done a great job filling the FO void as obvious by the lack of open FO time. But the Fact remains, we are way short on captains on all 3 airframes.

Fact 2: We will start staffing the Q400 before any union contract takes place that either a) puts fences between the pilot groups or b) merges them.

So that being said, will PCL pilots be asked to fill the void and fly Colgan planes????

Think about it. Colgan can't do it. PCL has junior captains on reserve right now. PCL corp spent bucu dolla on those q400's and they will not sit idle. IF colgan can't produce the pilots, will PCL corp mgmt offer PCL airlines pilots the choice to sit reserve or to hold a line flying a q400 for colgan? There is nothing stoping PCL Mgmt from doing this, and ALPA wouldn't stop it because according to contract all new flying should go to PCL pilots.

I have several friends that are PCL captains and Fo's and this is a a hot topic. East coat base; chance to get off reserve and hold a line.

Coffee talk, talk amongst yourselves............

My only thought about this is: Who the hell says "brewskis" anymore??? The 1980's called and...........

 

[dingo222]

My only thought about this is: Who the hell says "brewskis" anymore??? The 1980's called and...........

and the 80's answered with who list's cfi and pa-28 in thier profile anyhow.......... answer the question or find a new thread

 

[Sawmill]

anyhow? Dont you mean anywho?
Last time I checked, a Cherokee is an aircraft and CFI is a rating.
But Im not qualified on the Holiday Inn Express aircraft or have a 9.6 rating on hotornot...whatever the heck that means.

 

[Sawmill]

And to answer your question...maybe...but maybe not.

 

[TNHillbilly]

it is funny though that you said brewski's...admit it..

How many pilots that are on the Q400 list have left??? I didn't think that many had..maybe i was wrong.. How many pilots are getting trained for the Q a month?? Isn't it 10 a month..again i might be wrong. From what I see there are plenty to fill the classes until at least the spring of next year. The only problem I see is hiring enough FO's for attrition in addition to the Q's. It would mean more than the 20 or so a month we are getting right now.

On the other hand, I heard a rumor that as soon as the August or September upgrade class is finished, they have pretty much run out of F/O's to upgrade..at least ones that meet the minimum hours..could get interesting.

 

[PinnacleDude]

Perhaps one or two Pinnacle pilots who live near Newark might covet the Q400's, but not at their current rates of pay.

To be quite honest, Pinnacle cannot staff our airline. A recent recruiting trip netted 1 hire. We are trying to hire 24 street captains as we are out of FO's either willing or qualified to upgrade. We have been forced to cancel flights due to lack of crews. I don't think any Colgan pilot needs to worry one minute about a Pinnacle pilot trying to come over and fly a turbo p when they won't upgrade at PCL.

I would actually think it would be the other way around. Colgan pilots could get true jet time, fly above the weather, have an APU, and have more earning potential on a fast moving seniority list. I think it would be like Ross Perot's sucking sound. Pinnacle would suck up every last willing Colgan pilot just to keep our airline running.

 

[TNHillbilly]

mmmmmm apu's...last week was hot!!

 

[machaf]

I believe Pinnacle filled 14 of the 40 captain spots needed for November flying.

F.O. shortage is just as bad. 'Denied due to staffing' seems to be the norm at pinnacle.

PCL Management doesn't think ahead. They even admitted it during a conference call. They worry about whats happening now.

All the lines this year have been around 90 hours a month. Wait til December rolls around. Isn't that when the the CRJ-900's for Delta come online?

But oh.. PREF BID will solve all our shortage problems! Lets see what the sick call rate is in August.

Oh boy. Its going to get REAL ugly.

 

[30West]

anyhow? Dont you mean anywho?

No, he was quite correct with anyhow.

 

[Prop2Jet]

sawmill what r u a paid for training 1990s kid who never road a skateboard or played with Star Wars..... It is ok that people are older than u and have different ideas! Its ok, go program your FMS and have a relationship with it.... hahahahahh

 

[Godfather]

Go easy on the boy now

anyhow? Dont you mean anywho?
Last time I checked, a Cherokee is an aircraft and CFI is a rating.
But Im not qualified on the Holiday Inn Express aircraft or have a 9.6 rating on hotornot...whatever the heck that means.

AT least he's having a few brewski's...the fact that alcohol is aiding his thought process is good...Continue Dingo with your "Deep Thoughts"...Jack Handy would be proud!!

 

[Sawmill]

sawmill what r u a paid for training 1990s kid who never road a skateboard or played with Star Wars..... It is ok that people are older than u and have different ideas! Its ok, go program your FMS and have a relationship with it.... hahahahahh

Not paid anything lately...not currently instructing...dont really like it as a matter of fact. And I'd bet Im older than you...like that really matters.

 

[dondk]

So that being said, will PCL pilots be asked to fill the void and fly Colgan planes????

Think about it. Colgan can't do it. PCL has junior captains on reserve right now. PCL corp spent bucu dolla on those q400's and they will not sit idle. IF colgan can't produce the pilots, will PCL corp mgmt offer PCL airlines pilots the choice to sit reserve or to hold a line flying a q400 for colgan? There is nothing stoping PCL Mgmt from doing this, and ALPA wouldn't stop it because according to contract all new flying should go to PCL pilots.

technically... no
I do not see 9E pilots being offered or forced to the colgan side of the house.

1.. we have no rates for q400, 9E CA's would have to operate the q400 at SF-340 rates until a 9E q400 rate was established.
2.. colgan's q400 would have to go on our certificate and get the FAA approval.
3.. pilots cannot transfer companies, they would have to resign and obtain a colgan sen number OR the companies would have to merge and I don't see either of that happening.


now... I know colgan was down in mem looking at our SOC and there is serious discussion of the SOC's merging. if that would happen, AND there is a merger of the sen list's... then in theory and the cost of new manuals, badges, training costs for Q400's it would be possible. What I mean on this is... 9E spending 12-14 weeks of lost crew productivity while in training, and then no provision of an a/c lock or hub lock and you can have crew members bouncing over to colgan for a Q400 type, spending 2 months and bouncing back to the CRJ and another 4-6 weeks of lost productivity.

9E is bleeding money due to penalties from NWA. 7 figure penalties. they don't have much wiggle room to play with extra expenses unless someone else is paying for them.

 

[405]

9E is bleeding money due to penalties from NWA. 7 figure penalties. they don't have much wiggle room to play with extra expenses unless someone else is paying for them.

What kind of penalties? They don't tell us sh*t in the office.

Just curious.

 

[dondk]

what was it in april/may... 2.5 million in penalties. 3rd week of june I heard 1.5 million ALREADY for the next quarter. that comes off the bottom line, or off of profit.

i don't remember how many millions 9E made last year, but they are already in the hole 4+ and the year is not over. staffing looking forward does not correct until the end of the year then DCI comes in.

they are furloughing office workers and are not backfilling other positions. sit in on a budget meeting and you will know why...

 

[Lear70]

To be quite honest, Pinnacle cannot staff our airline. A recent recruiting trip netted 1 hire.

ROFLMAO!!!

I really need to get to an AIR, Inc conference... not to look for a job, but just to watch the PCL booth.

Wonder how many regionals will survive the current upswing as they can't find any pilots to fill the void? That's what happens when you keep hiring 300 hour wunderkids from puppy mills... Can't upgrade for 3+ years, then you only keep them for another 2-3 years before they move on.

Maybe they'll figure it out one day. The gravy days for regional management are OVER... at least for a while until the industry implodes again.

 

[dondk]

ROFLMAO!!!

I really need to get to an AIR, Inc conference... not to look for a job, but just to watch the PCL booth.

Wonder how many regionals will survive the current upswing as they can't find any pilots to fill the void? That's what happens when you keep hiring 300 hour wunderkids from puppy mills... Can't upgrade for 3+ years, then you only keep them for another 2-3 years before they move on.

Maybe they'll figure it out one day. The gravy days for regional management are OVER... at least for a while until the industry implodes again.

the problem is multi-faceted. no only for PNCL but for everyone. Some regionals "get it", PNCL doesn't and I don't think they will. I was fortunate to observe several hiring sessions. My .02

1. some regionals actually offer decent signing bonuses, 1st day employment with travel, insurance, single hotel rooms, and a contract. PNCL does not, they cannot compete. You wouldn't be surprised how many complete OE then bolt for someone actually offering something.
2. the days of 2K and better candidates are long gone, getting 1 out of 20 is considered good. the average candidate is under 1500 with NO turbine time
3. Asking a 800 hour CFI jet aerodynamics on tech questions is just stupid then disqualifying them because they don't know the answer is even worse.
4. begging a guy to come to an interview 3 days later and then disqualifying them because they forgot to copy their medical (they have it in their pocket though) and then sending them packing is also stupid.
5. the bottom line should be... are they trainable and would they be a good employee. finding the perfect candidate really is 1 out of 15 or 20.
6. get them into class fast, you wait and someone else gives them a better offer. One regional offers on the spot and gets you into indoc that day or the next day.
7. make the process enjoyable and informative. It is where the company has to sell itself to the candidate, not the candidate selling themselves to the company.

The only draw PNCL has is for locals or those who WANT the domiciles, quick upgrade for those with time, and those who only want to work for the red tails otherwise there is little else to draw them. This is why FO attrition has mgmt concerned. FO's are leaving in droves in either lateral moves (contract, money, commute), corporate (home more) or to the fractional's (more money). It is not about the equipment, any 1500TT pilot can find a jet job these days.

one last thing before I get off my soapbox. hire the 600 hour pilot, you will own them for 6-8 months before they realize their mistake and bolt for greener pastures. At least you get 6-8 months of productivity out of them. Some of them may respect you for giving them a chance and may actually ride it out. the one thing PNCL does have over others, after a year at PNCL you can break the 13-14 days off, everyone else still cannot touch that.

Puppy mills, they have the regionals by the short ones. Most of them are now demanding the airlines finance the mills. think about it, the mills have the product and will "sell" the product to the highest paying bidder. The mills have to work hard to get someone in the door, the regionals can help that by subsidizing the training cost.

the really scary part is... the kid who woke up today and said... mom, dad.. I want to be an airline pilot! and 8 months later they are in the right seat of a RJ... now that is scary!

 

[Smarta$$]

9E is bleeding money due to penalties from NWA. 7 figure penalties. they don't have much wiggle room to play with extra expenses unless someone else is paying for them.

Question? Labor is mostly a pass through cost, is it not? If so, wouldn't they be better off signing a contract and passing the labor cost on to NWA and DAL. That would help the staffing problem and save the seven figure penalties. When will they get it? When will they react to the changing times?

 

[Lear70]

Pinnacle's contract doesn't work like that.

Their ASA with NWA is a fee-per-departure structure. Training isn't pass-through...