Colgan or Pinnacle

[BSkin]

Colgan has NEVER been PFT.

Maybe not officially PFT, as I don't think the checks were written to Colgan, but there were quite a few people hired in a short period ( in '02 or '03) that were right out of the same flight school in FL -- $25,000 for 250 multi kind of thing.

 

[psysicx]

Isn't upgrade at Colgan 1yr?

 

[CJCCapt]

Isn't upgrade at Colgan 1yr?

Currently upgrading SAAB FO's from about senority #140 through #183. Numbers in the 180's are March and April '05 hires. Therefore, currently, Saab upgrade could be as short as 15 - 16 months, if you meet insurance mins and meet some internal requirements.

Beech upgrade under one year...if you meet insurance mins. We may, repeat, may be forced to hire some Beech street captains in the near future.

 

[bender]

After all the expansion I'd say that a new-hire placed in the Saab could expect to upgrade in 22-30 months. If it's sooner than that then hooray...

 

[PCL_128]

Um, we just got those 15 CRJ's back and added to our fleet, and there is no plan to get rid of any more.

Um, no, we didn't. Those planes are still sitting on a ramp collecting dust. No plans to bring them back at this point. Here's a tip: if Phil T., Doug S., or anyone else from senior management tells you something, believe the exact opposite.

3 years is the upgrade time right now

Actually, it's down to two years now.

P.S. On the original subject: Pinnacle sucks, but I'd pick it over Colgan. Upgrade is pretty quick, and the pay/QOL is much better than Colgan. Unless you have a desire to fly props, then Pinnacle is probably the better choice.

 

[dingo222]

remember one thing about upgrade at colgan. Colgan is non-union so they dont upgrade based on senority only. THey hired a bunch of low timers last year that wont be eligible for upgrade for a while. We had 2 people in my class under 500 hrs. They won't be eligible for upgrade for a long, long time. You may be 150 numbers down the list, but if you walked in with 1000 to say 1500 hrs, you will bypass most of those low timers pretty quick.

As for QOL, I don't know much about pinnacle, so i can't comment on them. I'm at colgan and held a line from the day i started. I've been on reserve 4 days out of 9 months, i'm off 16 days this month, and I come home and read this rag every night!

 

[The Goldberg]

I never said Pinnacle was a bad company. I posted my earlier statement to try to help someone decide which job to choose, Colgan or Pinnacle. I said Colgan was the better choice because of the fastest upgrade (if you have the total time). 3 years for upgrade at Pinnacle seems like a long time when you could have had almost two years of PIC turbine and that much closer to a major with Colgan. ANd I got my facts about Pinnacle from the 6th month international airline report from the July issue of Air Transport World Magazine (it wasn't a rumor I made up without fact).

 

[ReportCanoa]

Go to Colgan and do this:

Fly to your destination with an elevator problem

 

[F9 Buff]

I think I need to be educated on why it takes so long for someone to upgrade if they got hired as a low timer.

Say a 500 hour guy gets hired, within 12-15 months of flying as an FO he will most likely have 1500 hrs and meet all the other requirements too. If upgrade time is 15 months then why would he be waiting a long, long, long time to upgrade?

Which time category is holding all these people back and keeping them from upgrading? Night only needs like 100 hrs, instrument 75, x/c is 500. I can't see any of these being hard to attain in the 121 environment.

 

[ReportCanoa]

I think I need to be educated on why it takes so long for someone to upgrade if they got hired as a low timer.

Say a 500 hour guy gets hired, within 12-15 months of flying as an FO he will most likely have 1500 hrs and meet all the other requirements too.

1. See above post why low timers shouldn't upgrade quickly

2. Company minima are normally higher than 1500 TT. More like 3000 at some places.

 

[The Goldberg]

Must be easy to speculate about something you no nothing about. You must be one of those guys that has never made a mistake. Doesn't matter who you work for. The second you talk about someone else, be prepared to make a similar mistake, though I hope it doesn't. HOW DARE YOU. You didn't know them. Don't tramp on the memory of those who've been lost. FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO PICK ON BESIDES THAT! You make me sick.

 

[Almerick07]

pinnacle requires 3000 tt.....if im wrong correct me but 1000 hours per year is the quota from what i hear.

 

[30West]

Maybe not officially PFT, as I don't think the checks were written to Colgan, but there were quite a few people hired in a short period ( in '02 or '03) that were right out of the same flight school in FL -- $25,000 for 250 multi kind of thing.

Yes but you have to draw the line somewhere. Hell I paid for my own PPL, Comm, Inst, Multi, CFII. Does that make me a PFT?

At the same time there were others who were hired off the street right alongside of them.

 

[30West]

Go to Colgan and do this:

Fly to your destination with an elevator problem

yes, don't fly at Colgan because we all know they are the ONLY airline to have crews make mistakes!

 

[suupah]

Currently upgrading SAAB FO's from about senority #140 through #183. Numbers in the 180's are March and April '05 hires. Therefore, currently, Saab upgrade could be as short as 15 - 16 months, if you meet insurance mins and meet some internal requirements.

Beech upgrade under one year...if you meet insurance mins. We may, repeat, may be forced to hire some Beech street captains in the near future.

what are the internal mins?

 

[JATAGA]

1. See above post why low timers shouldn't upgrade quickly

2. Company minima are normally higher than 1500 TT. More like 3000 at some places.

ReportCanoa you must be a tool... do you think a short one page report can sum up everything that happened on that flight. Have you ever done the Rockland Augusta run. Do you know how much runway was left when the Captain made the decision to go? No you don't because you weren't there.

I happen to know the pilot this report is referring to and I can assure you he is a top notch pilot. He made a split second decision with a problem that no one is trained to deal with. If you ask me he did one hell of a job. He evaluated the problem... had a flyable airplane and then put it down safely at an airport that was just as close as flying back around in the pattern. Job well done!!!

If you would read your own article you would realize this was a Beech problem not a Colgan problem so grow up and stop trying to arm chair quarterback for the real pilots of the world.

 

[Prop2Jet]

To each is own. Who care what you think of Colgan. Everyone hates every other airline anyhow. The opinions on this board are just a small reflection of the industry. NWA, PINNACLE, PDT on and on and on....whatever. If you are looking for a job pick the company that is right for you. If you are in a company and unhappy, leave. If you are sick of flying go do something else.
QOL if based on how you look at life and what you value to be important to YOU, no us. Home every night, is great. No commuting. But hey you might like to travel around the US and get paid for it. So to each is own.
This thread is like saying back in college "my frat is better than your frat." How sad....

 

[greedypilot]

Any one here going to the 4 Aug PNCL interview?

 

[suupah]

Chicks dig beta so Colgan is better

 

[flyboyike]

QOL if based on how you look at life and what you value to be important to YOU, not us....

Great line!

 

[CJCCapt]

what are the internal mins?

Right now about 2000 tt and 1000 time-in-type for the Saab. Yes, higher than ATP mins. These are insurance requirements and company mins. There is a little flexiblilty. 1800 tt and 1200 time-in-type will also work. 800 in type is about the min for both airplanes. The company is also requiring your PC as a FO to be clean (no TP's).

Most pilots average about 750 hours per year. Some get toward the 900 hour mark, but its tough and only a few are willing to fly that many days. Therefore if you get hired with a 1000 hours you can expect the possibility of an early upgrade because you'll have the time requirements six to seven months before the 500 hour guy. This is what's happening now. I just flew with an excellent FO that could have been a captain months ago, but for the time. Hired in January of '05 he's just now getting to the point of having 1300 hours in the plane and 1800 total. He'll upgrade in September.

 

[BSkin]

Yes but you have to draw the line somewhere. Hell I paid for my own PPL, Comm, Inst, Multi, CFII. Does that make me a PFT?

At the same time there were others who were hired off the street right alongside of them.

Yes, but where you appear to be drawing the line is nowhere near where it should be. Unless you got all those quals in 6 months and took out a loan, of some sort, you did what many, many other people did. There is a difference.

 

[Prop2Jet]

2000tt and what 1000 in type, not from the mouth of the chief pilot. Try 2200TT and 500 in type. With the outflow of pilots, I would expect to see these times drop again.

C yah

 

[Mr Wu]

Which time category is holding all these people back and keeping them from upgrading?

Insurance time.

 

[Mr Wu]

yes, don't fly at Colgan because we all know they are the ONLY airline to have crews make mistakes!

.....

 

[Mr Wu]

Maybe not officially PFT, as I don't think the checks were written to Colgan, but there were quite a few people hired in a short period ( in '02 or '03) that were right out of the same flight school in FL -- $25,000 for 250 multi kind of thing.

Lots of Gulf$treamers at XJT, CHQ, and AWAC. Does that make them PFT as well?

 

[BSkin]

Lots of Gulf$treamers at XJT, CHQ, and AWAC. Does that make them PFT as well?

They were PFT at gulfstream, then moved on. I have a few friends that did that. At least they had some part 121 experience, some more than others. CJC hired right out of the flight school, with no experience at other than the field they trained and x-countried to. CJC was PFT at that short time, bottom line. I did a few of these people's IOE and was asked by JB personally, how the PFTrs were doing. Just clarifying that the statement previously stated that CJC was never PFT is false. If you think I hold something against these folks, you'd be wrong.

Try doing IOE and coming into BOS, or LGA with a PFTr ending their comm with tower with "Over".

 

[Mr Wu]

They were PFT at gulfstream, then moved on. I have a few friends that did that. At least they had some part 121 experience, some more than others. CJC hired right out of the flight school, with no experience at other than the field they trained and x-countried to. CJC was PFT at that short time, bottom line. I did a few of these people's IOE and was asked by JB personally, how the PFTrs were doing. Just clarifying that the statement previously stated that CJC was never PFT is false. If you think I hold something against these folks, you'd be wrong.

Try doing IOE and coming into BOS, or LGA with a PFTr ending their comm with tower with "Over".

The question I was asking was whether you consider XJT, CHQ, and AWAC as PFT because they hired out of Gulf$tream too. Going to gulf$tream was not a condition of employment at Colgan so I don't see how you would consider us PFT. It is smart business for Chuck to hire from there because it pretty much guarantees them passing training as they all have 250 hrs in the 1900. I'm sure there are a high number of Gulfstreamers at Skyway, Great Lakes, and Big Sky too. This is the same as saying that SWA is/was PFT because they required a 737 type to get hired.

 

[BSkin]

The question I was asking was whether you consider XJT, CHQ, and AWAC as PFT because they hired out of Gulf$tream too. Going to gulf$tream was not a condition of employment at Colgan so I don't see how you would consider us PFT. It is smart business for Chuck to hire from there because it pretty much guarantees them passing training as they all have 250 hrs in the 1900. I'm sure there are a high number of Gulfstreamers at Skyway, Great Lakes, and Big Sky too. This is the same as saying that SWA is/was PFT because they required a 737 type to get hired.

Mr. Wu, did I ever say anything about Gulfstream, except replying to you? I don't consider cjc pft, they tried it for a few months, and it wasn't from Gulfstream. It was a little north of there. And, if you really, really need it in black and white, NO I DON'T CONSIDER THEM PFT. HAPPY!?