Colgan Letters swaying your thoughts about ALPA?

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Pay for ALPA officers, can you tell me why they get what they do, is it flight pay loss and living expenses to be in Herndon for the term? If you have a break down on the exact cost and where its expensive I would like to see that.

That is right....

The expenses are reported as income. So an ALPA officer might get a living allowance to have an apt. in Wash DC. The allowance is reported as income.

Same with pilots. What is the company came to you and said "your living allowance each night in the hotel while you are on a trip costs us $50. We are adding that $50 in the formula in addition to your wages and benefits. So we will report that entire sum to the IRS."

Now you are paying taxes on $100K a year instead of $45k a year to fly a saab.

unionfacts. is a union busting website... do a search on this webboard for more info...

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=53627

The mis-leading numbers posted by this anti-Labor group are intended for the gullible. Please don't think that just because it's posted on the internet, it's all true.

The totals for all of those employees reflects money spent in their name...but not included in their compensation. For example, these nitwits are including unemployment insurance payments, medical insurance premiums, dental insurance premiums, pension contributions, per diem, money spent on airline tickets, and other items that are assigned a "value" under the DeLay-initiated LM-2 reporting requirements passed a couple of years ago.

A few years ago my company sent me a statement that showed the "total compensation" and "value" of my job. According to their calculations I was receiving compensation of over $300,000 a year! They included the value of the non-rev travel benefits I had, and all of the stuff listed above. Since my actual compensation was less than half of their interpretation, their propaganda became joke fodder at my house and in the crew room.

Add up all the cost you represent to your company (using their perspective) and it's easy to see that pilots are paid waaaaay too much! Naturally, the management toads who've led many of us to Red Ink Land aren't compensated nearly enough. Want proof? Go to unionfacts.com...where the truth lives!

Info on bergman
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1021148&highlight=unionfacts#post1021148
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[Rez O. Lewshun]

In the original post, only 4 of the jobs listed are filled by pilots, i.e., President, 1st VP, VP Admin and VP Finance. The President is full-time and salaried. His salary is determined by the Board of Directors, each of whom is an elected pilot representative. There are guidelines that govern the President's salary. One of them is that it may not be less than he could earn flying the line at his respective airline, including night and international differential pay where applicable.

The current President is a senior NWA Captain of the B747-400, international, equipment 1/2 day, 1/2 night. He is at the max pay level for his company. His basic hourly rate is $232. He has an 2.4% defined benefit retirement plan and profit sharing (now negligible). His international per diem rate is $2.05 per hour. If he were to fly the max of 1000 hrs per year, which he could do if he chose, his base pay would be $232,000, plus the international and night/day overrides. On top of that he would draw per diem of an estimated 250 hrs/mo. That's just the base and does not include the value of retirement contributions made by the company or any other fringe benefit.

I happen to have a personal friend who flys the same airplane for the same company. He is also senior enough to be on the highest pay scale. I don't know exactly how many hours my friend flys in a year, but I do know that it is NOT the maximum (he's lazy). His W2 last year was in excess of $350K. I'd like to see you tell him that he's overpaid.

The ALPA President has to live in DC, whether he wants to or not. He gets allowances to cover those costs. As presient of ALPA he can't live in a tenement and deal with the people that he has to. So, he gets an apartment, which I believe is in the Watergate building. It's expensive, as is all housing of quality in DC. Of necessity, he has to entertain a lot of politicians and airline executives. His expense allowances are not inconsistent with what that costs. He gets a car, paid for by ALPA, and someone to drive it (although he often drives himself). Having a driver sort of helps when you have to go to so many events on "the hill" and run so many errands on an almost daily basis. He's a politician, dealing with the high and mighty in DC, and they don't eat at Mac Donald's. To me, his expenses are justified. If you want to play in the big leaguse in Washington, it costs big money to do it.

I'm no fan of the current ALPA President, but his compensation is not really that far out of line for the job he is expected to do. You all need to be realistic. If you expect the man to be dealing with Senators, Congressmen, the Secretary of Transportation and Labor, etc., none of which he would have to do flying the line, then you have to pay for it.

The other 3 National Officers on the "evil" list are all earning salaries in accordance with what they could earn at their respective airlines.

Most, if not all of the other salaries listed apply to members of the so-called ALPA staff. These people are not pilots. Some of the lawyers and top level Administrators do have very high compensation. As in every company, some may be worth it and some not, depending on how you see what they do. There are two or three that I personally think are higher than they ought to be.

Enter a part of the equation that many of you don't appear to realize. Most of the other staff employees listed are unionized. Yes, that's right, they belong to labor unions themselves. Their "contracts" are the product of collective bargaining with ALPA. Many a time these negotiations have come very close to a strike as ALPA officials strive to control costs. Usually ALPA "caves" at the end. Now use your imagination just a little and think of what it would be like in terms of PR if ALPA, itself a labor union, was to be shut down by a strike. For practical reasons, that can't happen. Consequently, the staff have negotiated some very good contracts. By the way, the lawyers that are called Contract Administrators (CA's) are themselves members of their union.

Someone said the Contract Administrators aren't necessary. That just tells me that person doesn't have a clue. These people often represent several airlines each. They are involved in all contract negotiations. They play a role in every major grievance. They defend individual pilots before the FAA enforcement people. On top of that they often have to literally baby sit dozens of elected pilot representatives, who have the political power but are more often than not highly incompetent in labor relations and representation. Remember, the "representatives" are pilots. They are great at flying airplanes, but given the apathetic attention to their selection that is prevalent among pilot groups, a great many of them are not the shining kinghts in armour that you seem to believe. They do the best they can, but without the CA's the truth is they would not do much of anything but spin their wheels. Join the IBT or the IAM and you'll know what I mean. In my opinion, these people earn their money more than anyone on that list.

The CA's bosses are the high salaried "attorneys" on the list. Some of those aren't worth a plug nickle from my perspective, but they don't get there because they're smart. Remember seniority, the pilots shield? Well, they have the same system. Sometimes you get what you ask for and that is no less evident in the ALPA staff than it is in the left seat of airliners. Not all Captains are beacons of light, and neither are all lawyers. However, your "number" puts you into a lot of places you might not otherwise reach. Everything has an up and a down side and seniority is among those things.

Flight Pay Loss (FPL) is one of the highest if not THE highest cost items. The reps are volunteers. You can't expect them to give up all their off days and drop trips to attend required functions with zero compensation. When they do have to drop a trip for union work, the airline continues to pay them and the union reimburses the airline. That is the source of FPL. Not only does the union have to pay the airline the pilots trip pay, but it also has to pay the cost of that pilots' fringe benefits. Sometimes this fringe benefit override can be as high as 40% although recent concessions have lowered that. However, the override is a contractual percentage so it does not cost the union less until the contract is renegotiated. These factors are all a part of the cost equation.

One 717 fellow refered to fetherbedding reps and booze at MEC meetings. I don't know his experience, but as far as I know, ALPA doesn't pay for booze at local or MEC meetings. I'm not saying the booze is never there, but in almost every case that part of the bill is paid for by the participating pilots, not by the union. At national functions, that is not the case. I've never seen a local representative (within his own airline) get an expense reimbursement that included alcohol. Obviously I can't speak for everyone.

As for the BOD meetings. Yes, they are held in Florida. There are three prime reasons for that. 1) hotels in the Washington, DC area are a lot more expensive than they are in FL. 2) ALPA doesn't normaly hold its BOD meetings in non-union facilities. That limits the choices. 3) Finding a facility large enough to accomodate an ALPA BOD meeting is not as easy as it looks. Apart from that, pilots have to get to these meetings so, holding them in locations that do not have good airline access is not very bright.

None of what I've said is intended to "justify" anyting, but rather to explain some of the factors to those that may not understand. ALPA is far from perfect, but the allegations of corruption made on this board are not justified. ALPA's books are not secret from its members. You may not like what the union or some particular union official is doing, but they are NOT lining their own pockets with the pilots money. That is an unfounded allegation that has no basis in fact. There are no Jimmy Hoffas in ALPA.

We have as pilots many reasons to complain about ALPA's failures at the bargaining table and its internal politics but, in my opinion, fiduciary corruption is not one of them.

As for the efforts and the work of ALPA's staff, i.e., non-pilot employees, with very rare exception it is nothing but outstanding in both dedication and quality.

To those of you so eager to tear it down I say this: Don't sh_t where you eat; particularly not in public.

 

[Godfather]

Yes it has...

Are the letters from the president about CC air and how bad unions are swaying your opinion about Possible representation by ALPA?

I read them all then I sent in my card signed sealed and delivered!!! Glad I did it too!

In the words of Captain Patrick Henry at Patriot Airlines...

"Give me ALPA or give me death!"

I'll post another thread about the real CCAir Story later

 

[DrewBlows]

Rez,

I don't usually compliment other's posts, because I think it's pointless and a waste of reading time, but that was an articulate and informative post. Are the thoughts yours? The only reason I ask is because the post is italicized which usually means it's a cut-and-paste, but sometimes it's because it was done in MS Word and pasted on here (the new Mozilla Firefox has spell check, wooo whooo!).

I appreciate the information, but I think it's a shame that ALPA doesn't communicate better on the alpa.com website. I pay attention and consider myself well informed on union affairs, however it drives me nuts that I have to call or email my representative every time I have a question. I would like for more of my answers to be online.

 

[YMICFI]

Alpa

My fellow Colgan brothers and sisters...

If you have questions and want answers, please check out www.alpa.org/colgan

Or call the Colgan ALPA Organizing Committee Hotline at 1-877-GOT ALPA

Please educate yourselves on why we need ALPA now and in the future. They will happily answer any questions you have truthfully and without bias.

After research, you will find out why we need this union on our property. An in-house union or pilot committee just will not work.

 

[I ROCK]

www.colganpilotgroup.com

 

[PCL_128]

www.colganpilotgroup.com

-Who appointed these two (future management pilots) to represent you? You certainly didn't get a say in the matter, did you?

-Who is funding this little endeavor? Can you trust representation that is directly funded by the Colgans?

-Why now? If the Colgans really cared about the pilot group and wanted to let you "collectively bargain," why did they wait until you started organizing?

-Will this "committee" provide you with legal counsel if you get in trouble? Will this "committee" provide you with help if you lose your medical? Will this "committee" have any rights to a grievance process?

-Does the creation of this "committee" change anything at all? I think you know the answer is a big NO!

Don't fall for this classic union-busting tactic, guys. Management is trying to create the appearance of caring about you so that you'll turn down ALPA. As soon as ALPA is off their heels, things will go right back to like they were before. I suggest you all read a book called "Confessions of a Union Buster." You really can't imagine the lengths these management guys will go to stop you from achieving the basic right of representation.

 

[Mr Wu]

among other things, crew scheduling giving no more favors! Everyone here has benefited by favors granted by the company at one time or another

Are you kidding me? For everyone that received a favor, someone else got boned. Wonder why you keep getting JRM while another in your base gets all the time off he wants? What favors are YOU getting?

 

[Chamo]

www.colganpilotgroup.com

How about some GUARANTEES dog boy...The 2 guys in charge of it are "Company Guys" all the way and we all know that...who's interests are going to be protected by this "Group" who as someone already stated WE (the other 358 pilots at COLGAN) had no hand in electing?...This is as onesided as everything else in this company...Favors from schedueling? come on the only reason they do IF EVER is b/c u just got a major screw job...Electing this group will change NOTHING and guess who will be pulling the strings behind TD and DB...Either our good budy MC or his new puppet master PT...U know it I know it...do you really think when it comes down to it, our buddies in the pilot group would truly stand up for the rest of us? remember who signs the checks and got a certain someone upgraded totally out of seniority...

www.alpa.com/colgan

 

[Kaman]

If I'm not mistaken one of the members of this so-called colganpilotcommitte is on the short-list to be the next Chief pilot! I wouldn't trust these two to wash my car never mind represent my interests. I know more than half the ALPA OC guys and all of them are honest, hard-working and ethical people. Place your vote where you feel you must, but I'd think it over carefully before I would bail out on the ALPA movement for this "alternative".