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Colgan 3407 Down in Buffalo

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This being a high wing aircraft, aren't these types of designs more susceptible to tail stalls especially when iced up?
 
Erlanger said:
This being a high wing aircraft, aren't these types of designs more susceptible to tail stalls especially when iced up?
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Very true. Plus the circumstances point to it. The sudden crash, everything normal it seems, nose down attitude for crash, etc.
 
I just got back from the crash site. It's pretty well sealed up and from the looks of it they got the fire out. It's just smoking quite a bit. Very eery. RIP.
 
WSurf said:
Just listened to the ATC tapes. Nothing solid, but her voice seems to change the further into the approach they got.

Damn this sucks...
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She sounds more upbeat than I do after a long day of flying out of Newark. Nothing out of the ordinary to me.

Godspeed.
 
Only thing I noticed was that on several altitude assignments she only read back"3407" like they were busy handling something. I think the first was maybe on the letdown to 6000'. Or that could just be the end of a long day. I agree that the approach clearance readback all sounded fine.
Godspeed and condolences to all.
 
gcaflyer said:
Only thing I noticed was that on several altitude assignments she only read back"3407" like they were busy handling something. I think the first was maybe on the letdown to 6000'. Or that could just be the end of a long day. I agree that the approach clearance readback all sounded fine.
Godspeed and condolences to all.
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It sounds as though this liveatc feed is coming from a scanner that is scanning multiple frequencies (which is why you hear broadcasts from both Tower and Approach). The scanning of other frequencies could have resulted in transmissions being partially or entirely left out of this recording.
 
I am not normally the speculative type and I won't start here, but I noticed something interesting on the one close up photo of the tail: What is all that white stuff on the leading edge of the horizontal stab? I'm no expert and maybe it's the light, or something is damaged/melted, or maybe it is ice.

As you all know really nasty icing can be highly localized. Even though other aircraft weren't reporting icing of the scary variety it doesn't mean Colgan didn't run into some really ugly stuff.

Godspeed to the crew and passengers of this flight, as well as my brother and sister pilots at Colgan. My heart is definately very, very heavy this morning as I am thinking of them.
 
LowlyPropCapt said:
I am not normally the speculative type and I won't start here, but I noticed something interesting on the one close up photo of the tail: What is all that white stuff on the leading edge of the horizontal stab? I'm no expert and maybe it's the light, or something is damaged/melted, or maybe it is ice.
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I'm pretty sure that 3000 pounds of jet fuel burns hotter than 32 degrees. Human life is worth a lot more than what they had to suffer through and let's all hope this accident was caused by nothing else other than an act of god. RIP to all the victims of this crash.
 
May those that were lost now rest in a peaceful sleep, and that we find out the reason we lost one very quickly.

I interviewed at CJC over the summer; seemed like a nice dispatch office. Dont forget that there was a dispatcher for this flight that will forever be affected.

I'm rereading Fate is the Hunter, and just read the "Ice" story just a week ago; the more things change, the more they stay the same.

RIP
 
This was posted on the airline pilot forum..... Interesting. Anyone else fly the Q have a similar issue?

I would like to add my experience flying the 400 in ice. I have experienced MANY different icing conditions in this type of A/C including "roll upset" due SEVERE icing while in a climb to altitude. I do not believe that the icing reported in the pireps would have caused this aircraft to come down on approach. Moderate clear ice in freezing rain on approach and amazingly this airplane still handles normally (aside from the shotgun blast noise of ice coming off the props.) I will add though, that it was VERY VERY VERY (can i make it any clearer) EXTREMELY common to have deicing malfunctions on this a/c. I am talking about two to three write up's a trip in the winter. If you heard DING on desent 98% of the time it was a DEICE PRESSUE caution.
 
They just announced there may have been another pilot jumpseating on board. Godspeed to all, prayers to all the families involved.
 
RIP. Terrible news.

John Roberts on CNN sounds reasonably knowledgeable about aviation - he must be a private pilot. Not everything he says is correct but he does show a lot of enthusiasm and interest. Where's Miles O'Brien?????
 
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Limeyflyer said:
They just announced there may have been another pilot jumpseating on board. Godspeed to all, prayers to all the families involved.
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That is correct. Media released crew names this morning:

- Captain Marvin Renslow joined Colgan on September 9, 2005. Captain Renslow had flown 3,379 hours with Colgan Air.
- First Officer Rebecca Shaw joined Colgan on January 16, 2008. Ms. Shaw had flown 2,244 hours with Colgan Air.
- Flight Attendant Matilda Quintero joined Colgan on May 28, 2008.
- Flight Attendant Donna Prisco joined Colgan on May 28, 2008.
- Captain Joseph Zuffoletto, an off-duty crewmember aboard flight 3407, joined Colgan on September 19, 2005.
 
Icywings said:
I am talking about two to three write up's a trip in the winter. If you heard DING on desent 98% of the time it was a DEICE PRESSUE caution.
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We get this caution light all the time in Decent in the Dash 8 300 when the bleeds go from LP to HP on a flight idle decent. Boots are still effective so no problem existed in the Dash 8/300 series. If you want the caution light to go out, just have to add alittle power.
 
First god bless the passengers and their families onboard flt 3407. God bless the crew whom i have flown with and should have flown with on this trip.
This is a terrible tragedy.
I have flown this Q400 for the last year and something really bad must have happened to bring this amazing aircraft down. It could not have been just ice the 400 can carry alot of ice.
 
ultrarunner said:
That is correct. Media released crew names this morning:

- Captain Marvin Renslow joined Colgan on September 9, 2005. Captain Renslow had flown 3,379 hours with Colgan Air.
- First Officer Rebecca Shaw joined Colgan on January 16, 2008. Ms. Shaw had flown 2,244 hours with Colgan Air.
- Flight Attendant Matilda Quintero joined Colgan on May 28, 2008.
- Flight Attendant Donna Prisco joined Colgan on May 28, 2008.
- Captain Joseph Zuffoletto, an off-duty crewmember aboard flight 3407, joined Colgan on September 19, 2005.
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Sounds like a pretty experienced crew.

God Rest there souls.
 
rumorhasit said:
Icing played a role in the crash? opinions?

Just looked at the metar for buf....blowing snow and mist.....

KBUF 130505Z COR 25012KT 4SM -SN BR BKN008 BKN015 OVC021 01/00 A2983 RMK AO2 CIG 005V011 P0000
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Pretty typical for BUF in the winter.
 
Abernathy said:
That doesn't sound right.
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It's not. I have also seen reported that she had 244 hrs with Colgan. As well both CA listed 3 years and 3300+ hrs with Colgan, which is also not possible per FARs.

Per CNN: "The visibility at BUF at the time was 3mph." That seems way too slow to land, shouldn't it be closer to the speed of light?

You guys know the media. After all, why do we have the NTSB, when we have CNN?
 
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ShyFlyGuy said:
Non-pilot witnesses are worthless. They don't know what "normal" is and what isn't. Most are just making stuff up to be on tv.
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On eyewitness said "the pilot was leaning out the window yelling at people to get out of the way."
 
Those are probably total times in which case I'd say it wasn't an experienced crew by any stretch.
 

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