Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

CO Pilot Suspended story?

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
F

Flyerjosh

I love Flightinfo.com
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Posts
367
Can one of you folks that work there verify or dispute this rumor/story I heard from a former coworker? If it's true it's a total crock of ********************.

<Forwarded Message>:

CO Pilot Moves Nonrev VP Into Coach, Gets Suspension
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]
Recently, one of Newark’s most professional B756 captains finds himself and his family without a paycheck for 30 days!

Maybe you’re thinking that this guy must have done something out of character, or committed a grave violation of company policy, or FARs . . . right? Management tells us we have a partnership accord and a working-together promise. “Dignity and Respect” have fallen by the wayside, so management can make way for their executive perks to take precedence over crew rest and safety.

At the gate in Rome, the captain called SOCC for clarification and help in determining whether or not a nonrevenue Company VP of Revenue Management, who listed himself for a Business First seat, should occupy the B/F seat while moving the pilot rest/safety seat to coach. SOCC agreed with the captain, and SOCC called the gate agent to reassign the VP to a Coach seat. Both the captain and the VP were cordial and professional. The flight pushed 25 minutes late and arrived 5 minutes early in EWR.

The captain acted in good faith and with complete professionalism at all times. The captain also acted in the highest interest of safety for his crew and passengers, yet at a disciplinary hearing convened by the EWR CPO on March 3, he was found guilty of both delaying a flight and, more importantly it appears, having the VP of Revenue Management sit in Coach, in order to have the working crew rest seat changed to B/F. This captain was advised that some individual, high on the organizational chain, initially wanted him fired for moving this VP of Revenue Management to coach—fired for a decision made in good faith that was made in concurrence with the on-duty Continental Airlines Ops Manager. This discipline was then reduced, through discussion, to a 90-day suspension. I suppose that he is supposed to consider himself lucky to now be without a paycheck for only 30 days.[/FONT]
 
Corporate greed at it's finest... IMHO... This captain is concerned with the safety of the flight, in terms of crew rest, and gets no pay for 30 days for doing his job... Unbelievable...
 
Helloooooooooo. FAA, where are you? I know you're on this board somewhere because you sure arn't out doing your job. I hope this Captain gets the best lawyer money can buy. Where is ALPA on this subject?
 
I really hope that this story is just some sadly twisted rumor...
 
This is amazing !
Flyerjosh said:
Can one of you folks that work there verify or dispute this rumor/story I heard from a former coworker? If it's true it's a total crock of ********************.

<Forwarded Message>:

CO Pilot Moves Nonrev VP Into Coach, Gets Suspension
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]
Recently, one of Newark’s most professional B756 captains finds himself and his family without a paycheck for 30 days!

Maybe you’re thinking that this guy must have done something out of character, or committed a grave violation of company policy, or FARs . . . right? Management tells us we have a partnership accord and a working-together promise. “Dignity and Respect” have fallen by the wayside, so management can make way for their executive perks to take precedence over crew rest and safety.

At the gate in Rome, the captain called SOCC for clarification and help in determining whether or not a nonrevenue Company VP of Revenue Management, who listed himself for a Business First seat, should occupy the B/F seat while moving the pilot rest/safety seat to coach. SOCC agreed with the captain, and SOCC called the gate agent to reassign the VP to a Coach seat. Both the captain and the VP were cordial and professional. The flight pushed 25 minutes late and arrived 5 minutes early in EWR.

The captain acted in good faith and with complete professionalism at all times. The captain also acted in the highest interest of safety for his crew and passengers, yet at a disciplinary hearing convened by the EWR CPO on March 3, he was found guilty of both delaying a flight and, more importantly it appears, having the VP of Revenue Management sit in Coach, in order to have the working crew rest seat changed to B/F. This captain was advised that some individual, high on the organizational chain, initially wanted him fired for moving this VP of Revenue Management to coach—fired for a decision made in good faith that was made in concurrence with the on-duty Continental Airlines Ops Manager. This discipline was then reduced, through discussion, to a 90-day suspension. I suppose that he is supposed to consider himself lucky to now be without a paycheck for only 30 days.[/FONT]
Click to expand...
 
Where is ALPA on this subject?
Click to expand...
My guess but ALPA probably was the organization who coordinated the pilot contributions to keep this guy going and they will probably be the ones grieving this to get him his backpay.
 
Wowjack said:
It's too bad, I thought I wanted to work for this company.
Click to expand...

Can you name a company where management bs doesn't happen ever? As disappointing as this incident is, I've heard lots of unbelievable stories from friends at just about every major. It's one of the reasons that we have unions.
 
Wowjack said:
It's too bad, I thought I wanted to work for this company.
Click to expand...

If that is a picture of you, I really don't want to get on your bad side, but I must say that if you are using honesty and integrity as a litmus of your willingness to work for a company in the United States you may as well seek unemployment.

I guess since your name is wowjack that isn't your picture. Sheesh, now I am feeling like some sort of Brokeback dude.
 
Last edited:
Here's a followup that I got this morning:

<forwarded message>:

I can give a little insight about this, hopefully. This is the last I heard about it. I've only flown 6hrs this month, so I don't get in too often to keep up with the latest gossip..

In the CAL contract it states that the crew rest seat on the B756 fleet is 3 seats in coach that are blocked off. It also states that if there is a seat open in Business First that was not sold to the public, the crew will be given priority over ANY non-revenue pass rider.

The VP was on company business and was on a positive space pass, but he was NOT a revenue passenger. This whole issue has been simmering for about 9 months since the new contract has come in place. (That is a whole other issue... ie, the B756 fleet is the only fleet that has to sit in coach.. the 737 fleet still gets first and the 777 fleet has its crew bunks because of the flight times. There wasn't a single person on the negotiating commitee that flew the 756.. got kind of left in the wind on that one... anyway)... back to the story.. The CA called SOCC (ops) and conferred with them and it was decided that the VP would be moved to coach and the seat be given to the crew for rest. The flight was delayed for 25 minutes while sorting this out. It arrived 5 minutes early. The CPO is in a tizzy for the delayed flight (ie, the whole fly it - grieve it thing) and is trying to make a stand on the Executive pass rider status (this has happend more than once).

FWIW, the pilots at CAL have voluntarily ponied up $10,000 to help him out while he's not getting paid for 30 days. Also, it appears his "punishment" is going to be a lot less than that anyway (one or two missed trips), and that the union is greiving the whole situation to get the crew rest nonsense solved so this doesn't happen in the future...

Hope that made sense...
 
Flyerjosh said:
In the CAL contract it states that the crew rest seat on the B756 fleet is 3 seats in coach that are blocked off. It also states that if there is a seat open in Business First that was not sold to the public, the crew will be given priority over ANY non-revenue pass rider.
Click to expand...

Thank you for chiming in with accurate background information. I saw this posted on airliners.net and it was a gazillion page thread with absolutely no reference to the language in the contract that governs crew rest seats. I wanted to scream, but am not going to cough up cash to participate in their infantile discussions.
 
Flyerjosh said:
Here's a followup that I got this morning:

<forwarded message>:


FWIW, the pilots at CAL have voluntarily ponied up $10,000 to help him out while he's not getting paid for 30 days.
Click to expand...
My oh my..how will he get by for the month?:p
 
I'm going to assume thats sarcasm. All have taken painful paycuts, some of them compounded by downgrades over the last few years. Few peple can manage a month unpaid without some pain. Further, the donations are more of a show of solidarity than simple monetary compensation.
 
Cardinal said:
I'm going to assume thats sarcasm. All have taken painful paycuts, some of them compounded by downgrades over the last few years. Few peple can manage a month unpaid without some pain. Further, the donations are more of a show of solidarity than simple monetary compensation.
Click to expand...

Sarcasm? Probably not. While I feel for the guy and the paycuts that he (and others) have taken, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy when you make 100-150K+ a year, and don't have at least a months worth of liquid salary saved up.

10000K would pay my mortgage for 7 MONTHS. Part of the reason that so many pilots out there at the majors have financial issues is that they live at the very max of their income, rather then living modestly.

Tie right into the pension arguements. While I think it totally sucks that pensions are getting cut- I have to wonder what these guys did with their money all of those years. My wife and I make about 90K a year combined. Not a lot, but certainly enough for us to live comfortably, and put enough into retirement accounts that will keep us comfortable after we call it quits (right now with modest growth of about 5-6% they project to be about 7 million when we retire at 60).

I think the company blows for suspending this guy. But it shouldn't have put him into such a position that he needs that much support from his fellow pilots (regardless of how generous they are or feel).
 
How do you know what he does or does not have saved up? The fact that many donated to this cause has nothing to do with his personal finances. He might have a years worth in the bank but that is not the issue. The pilots wanted to show support for an issue we take very seriously. Most will admit that it was our own union that sold away that seat on this fleet type and we are in the process of evaluating this and possible making a deal with management to have the seat restored but that is above my pay level.

IAHERJ
 
mine was sarcasm....take note of the smileys...
 
The VP SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN BUSINESS CLASS! This is now way to treat an upper level leader of your company. That capt should be talked to and grilled by the CPO's. No questions asked. I would feel honored personally to have a member of my senior management on board my aircraft and would do anything to accomadate them. Senior level management should have been treated better in this case. Remember, were just the ones drivin the bus, they are the ones leading us!
 
His points are accurate, and his opinions mirror that of a large portion of the CAL pilot group. Thus his present employer isn't of great importance.

PCL_128 has made the mistake of collossal ignorance once in his career, and he's not going to make that mistake again. By researching and following the goings on at his target carriers, he will be able to make solid choices. If every newhire stayed as well informed this scum-sucking industry would be a better place.

I don't work at CAL either, but I have read the Flight Pay Loss report in its entirety. Have you?
 
Flyerjosh said:
Sarcasm? Probably not. While I feel for the guy and the paycuts that he (and others) have taken, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy when you make 100-150K+ a year, and don't have at least a months worth of liquid salary saved up.

10000K would pay my mortgage for 7 MONTHS. Part of the reason that so many pilots out there at the majors have financial issues is that they live at the very max of their income, rather then living modestly.

Tie right into the pension arguements. While I think it totally sucks that pensions are getting cut- I have to wonder what these guys did with their money all of those years. My wife and I make about 90K a year combined. Not a lot, but certainly enough for us to live comfortably, and put enough into retirement accounts that will keep us comfortable after we call it quits (right now with modest growth of about 5-6% they project to be about 7 million when we retire at 60).

I think the company blows for suspending this guy. But it shouldn't have put him into such a position that he needs that much support from his fellow pilots (regardless of how generous they are or feel).
Click to expand...


thanks Suzi Orman.

you sound like someone who just moved out of a CL65 and out of his moms basement.

How do you know what the guy had? he could have 250K+ in liquid savings..

but thanks for telling us your annual income, your mortgage payment, and your retirement forecasts.
 
Uppercrust said:
I would feel honored personally to have a member of my senior management on board my aircraft and would do anything to accomadate them.
Click to expand...

Crusty.....Take him up to broke back mountain, and show him your super re-inforced knee pads.....He'll really appreciate that type of accomadation!
737
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

SS at RC.PNG
Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom