co-capt. logging time

[onthebeach]

I said wake up, Sleepy

Sleepy, what part of "the-regulations-allow-you-to-log-PIC-time-under-certain-conditions-even-when-you-are-not-the-Captain" is it that you don't understand?

The man asked if he could log PIC time when flying a jet in which he was typed and current. The correct answer is yes. If your answer is no, you need to hit the books. Try waking up first.

 

[stupidpilot]

Sleepy, what part of "the-regulations-allow-you-to-log-PIC-time-under-certain-conditions-even-when-you-are-not-the-Captain" is it that you don't understand?

The man asked if he could log PIC time when flying a jet in which he was typed and current. The correct answer is yes. If your answer is no, you need to hit the books. Try waking up first.

Read the previous posts. I have been to a few job fairs and in every one the answer was that most every one of the BIG employers only counts PIC time under Part 1. NOT Part 61. So why he may be able to legally log it, he's obviously logging it toward getting time for a better job. So Part 1 rules would apply. If there's any doubt the best thing is to separate it out.(stupid sounding rhyming unintentional.)

 

[sleepy]

Thanks Stupidpilot. Let's say that you are in the interview for your dream job, they look at your application and see that you logged 3000 hours as PIC of a Falcon 900. They look at your logbook and see that you have a column that is titled "PIC in an aircraft I was typed in, but I was not the designated PIC on the trip". They ask if you counted this time toward the 3000 hours PIC in a Falcon 900 that are the required minimum for the job. You say yes, and they say thank you for coming in, we will be in touch............

Why take the chance, error on the side of caution.

 

[svcta]

maybe, then, it wasn't your dream job after all.

 

[A Squared]

And as has also been pointed out in previous threads, when push comes to shove, anyone can log anything they want in their logbook (I have known pilots who choose to log all time on an IFR flight plan as IMC- whatever) and it's not "illegal" per se. I can go out in a C172 (or for that matter MS Flight Sim) and log it in my Jepp logbook as PIC Concorde or Space Shuttle. It's only a *potential* legal and/or ethical issue if one is representing it as time for the purposes of FAA requirements, and/or to an interviewer or application sheet,

Nope, not true at all. You can in fact get a falsification enforcement for putting bogus time in your logbook, even though you never used it for a certificate, rating or privelige.

The FAA has made it very clear that everything you put in your logbook must be legit. Period. I can show you the NTSB decisions on pilots who though otherwise. They lost thier certificates.

The guy you mentinoed logging bogus instrumet time could in fact lose his certificates for that fact alone, even without putting the time on an 8710.

 

[SENECAII]

What if both pilots are typed and one ( or both) is a MEI (instructor) ?

 

[skyaddict]

Thanks for the clarification, and in that case, rightly so (risking enforcement action, if misrepresenting). I guess that was what I meant to say- if they represent the MS flight sim time (I know this is an extreme and silly example but just trying to push it to the extreme case for the sake of argument) as real flight time, it is misrepresentation; if they are tools who want a column with MS flight sim time, they aren't. And you can create whatever columns you want and log it, so long as you don't misrepresent.

As for the airlines, they have their own narrower definitions of PIC than the FAA's so one should make the distinction very clear both on an app and in the logbook.

As for the broader issue of people effectively Parker timing their own definitions of actual instrument or whatever, that isn't really enforcable even though it is wrong. I recall some airlines (Comair back when I attended a job fair in 2001 during their strike) had rather silly requirements like "10% of total time" which were completely ludicrous in almost any part of the country even for someone who launches in the soup daily, not just FL and AZ. (I notice in turbine equipment now, even in IFR weather, 10% IFR is pushing it on most flights, and that doesn;'t include the many 0% on VFR days, which are most days). So they must have been getting many of their apps Parker timed I'd imagine. Anyway, can leave that for another thread.

 

[A Squared]

I guess that was what I meant to say- if they represent the MS flight sim time (I know this is an extreme and silly example but just trying to push it to the extreme case for the sake of argument) as real flight time, it is misrepresentation; if they are tools who want a column with MS flight sim time, they aren't. And you can create whatever columns you want and log it, so long as you don't misrepresent.

Sure I'd agree with that. Put what you want, as long as it's clear what it is. I have read posters claim that you can put anything in you logbook, however you want, including misrepresenting time or fabricating it, and you're safe as long as you don't put that time on an 8710. That's not true. If it's in your logbook, it had better be accurate. Like you say, it's OK to log MS flight sim time, as long as it's clearly logged as MS flight sim time.