CNN reported...you decide

[350DRIVER]

Secondly, you can hide enough chemical weapons in the basement of one house in Baghdad to wipe out Israel.

Well.... Then I am sure we are going to find them....(no sarcasm intended) To date we have found how many.?? Exactly, I believe that number still stands at "0". The "smoking gun" must be found to justify this action and to keep Bush's political life alive. I find it somewhat funny that they are now trying to get away from discussing the weapons of mass destruction and justifying that "we" need to "free" the Iraqi people. I guess we must also "free" the people in Syria from these weapons as well, Iran should also be "freed", not to mention those poor people in North Korea. Maybee after this we can also "attempt" to free the people of Cuba. I cannot wait to see how "w" recovers the economy, unemployment rates, etc, although sure there will be more diversionary tactics that will buy him more time.

Thirdly, if most Americans understood how many people in that part of the world thought and operated,, they would likely vote to nuke most of it

I think not... We have no business in playing on other people's soil who pose no legitimate threat to this nation. Pub- Just how did Iraq pose a threat to this country.?? We created Bin Laden after the first Gulf war and you don't think we are going to create another anti-American leader like this after this war is over.?? Come on... There will be 5 more Bin's created after this war.


We have plenty of problems in this country that are only getting worse by the day and will continue until we start to prioritize.


04" get here fast.....
3 5 0

 

[350DRIVER]

is the drum roll starting?

http://www.thedubyareport.com/

3 5 0

 

[Timebuilder]

The "smoking gun" must be found to justify this action and to keep Bush's political life alive. I find it somewhat funny that they are now trying to get away from discussing the weapons of mass destruction and justifying that "we" need to "free" the Iraqi people.

I think a great many of the WMD were being shipped to Syria while Hans and his friends were on their escorted tour of empty buildings. We gave the Iraqis all the time they needed to do this, all in the name of diplomacy.

We have already found the chemical suits and antidotes. There is only ONE reason to have them, since we had no chemical or bio weapons to release in Iraq.

Bush's opponents are hoping (dare I say praying) that the public will call for this so-called "smoking gun". It isn't happening.

I cannot wait to see how "w" recovers the economy, unemployment rates, etc, although sure there will be more diversionary tactics that will buy him more time.

Enlighten me: how is it possible for a President to "recover an economy"? The best we can do is stimulate the economy, and wait.

We created Bin Laden after the first Gulf war and you don't think we are going to create another anti-American leader like this after this war is over.?? Come on... There will be 5 more Bin's created after this war.

These "bins" are created by an evil belief that they are following. Can you sort out the difference between good and evil? How about countries that harbor terrorism which is pledged to destroy the US.

Wouldn't you call this a legitimate threat?

 

[Bertie Wooster]

hello again,
Here are my problems ,questions and concerns about the war.

First it was about the Alqaueda link with Iraq. If in deed we had found one it would have been on the news as this would have helped the cause but they have failed to find one. In fact there have been established links between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan with Alquaeda. And there were NO Iraquis involved in the sept 11 hijackings.

Then it was about WMD. N. Korea has WMD and so does Israel. Israel has pulled out of the NPT and so has N.Korea. We have decided to talk to N.Korea multilaterally while we bomb Iraq unilaterally.

Then it was about Iraqi Freedom. These people have been ruled for thousands of years. I am in no way condoning Saddam and am very happy he is gone but what happens if down the road the Sunnis and the Shiites and the Kurds start fighting for power? What happens if they elect a religious person(who is anti US) down the road do we go back in and liberate them again?

Speaking about Democracy . How hypocritical is it of us to try and Bribe Turkey when 90% of their population was against the war?
We still tried to sway their minds. That is not promoting Democracy is it?

Further more I believe Peace is the way. A frail, old gentleman by the name of Mohandas karamchand Gandhi once said if we all follow the eye for an eye principle it will leave us all blind.

Looking at the recent events one can predict what the Arabs want. Namely, fresh water, change in Isreal policy and we not looking at all of them as terrorists.

 

[ksu_aviator]

To date we have found how many.?? Exactly, I believe that number still stands at "0".

11 mobile Chem labs

First it was about the Alqaueda link with Iraq.

I think you missed it, it was only reported every day for a week that Al Queada was fighting with the Iraqi soldiers.

 

[surplus1]

surplus1:

Thanks for your comments. You can do this because we are free. As we share freedon with more people who currently live under dictatorships, they may also be able to share unpopular opinions in public. This is "worthwhile".

Yes, we can do it because we are free. I'm one of the people that fought to protect that freedom at another point in time. When I was doing that fighting I thought that I myself would be able to exercise it. Now, much later, when I myself exercise the freedom that I defended back when, strangely I find that I'm branded as un-American for voicing opinions that are different from those of the current occupant of the White House. Explain to me why I should be happy about that? I'd really like to know.

Thanks also for publishing those lyrics. Most young poeple have never had the opportunity to either read or sing them, due to religious and political oppression right here in our own country.

As I'm sure your know, those lyrics were penned in 1862 during the American Civil War. I hoped that the "young people" that read them might understand the militarism and religious connotations that they espouse. I'm sure the lady that wrote them was caught up in the fervor of her beliefs and the support of the Allmighty for her own ideas. Read again carefully what she said. While I think everyone should be free to believe those things, I also think that what they really mean should be clearly understood. I don't think that it is.

As referenced in the article, when it was sung, by whom it was sung and how it has been followed up to now, would appear to border on our own home-grown version of religious fanaticism. Back in 1862 we were acting it out against our brothers and sisters here in our own country. Today we are acting it out against foreigners in their country. Sometimes it makes me wonder if we have progressed at all. For a while there I thought we were fighting against fanaticism. I'm not so sure we can do that succesfully by espousing it ourselves, under another name.

(From your other post) We have already found the chemical suits and antidotes. There is only ONE reason to have them, since we had no chemical or bio weapons to release in Iraq.

You're normally very logical but the above part of your post really bothers me. Do you actually believe that the US has no chemical or bio weapons (to release wherever it chooses)? Please tell me that you're not that brainwashed.

Do a little research on the town of Anniston, Alabama for starters. You may get an eyeopener re our own involvement in this area and the dangers that this arsenal pose to our own people, right here at home.

 

[Andy Neill]

Since Nixon's presidency, it has been US policy to NEVER use bio weapons and to relinquish first use of chem weapons. Since 1997, the US has been on track to destroy all of its chem weapons except for riot agents by 2007. One of the things going on at Anniston, Alabama (as well as Toole, UT and Aberdeen, Md) is the destruction of those weapons.

 

[MSNFlier]

Where is Congress?

Interesting question raised above regarding the lack of a declaration of war against Iraq by Congress, yet Congress (a co-equal branch of the government) sits around like sheep because they are afraid of the "political power" of the President.

First, the Constitution, Article I, Section 8; it begins:

"Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
...
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;"

Perhaps George Washington's words are also instructive:

"If, in the opinion of the people, the distribution or modification of the constitutional powers be in any particular wrong, let it be corrected by an amendment in the way which the Constitution designates. But let there be no change by usurpation; for though this, in one instance, may be the instrument of good, it is the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed."
— George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government."
— James Madison

"Potestas stricte interpretatur." A power is strictly interpreted.

"In dubiis, non praesumitur pro potentia." In cases of doubt, the presumption is not in favor of a power.

Interestingly, Alexander Hamilton discussed the commander in chief powers of the president in Federalist Essay No. 69. He compared the powers of the president, under the proposed constitution, to that of the King of Great Britain:

"The President is to be the commander-in-chief of the army and navy of the United States. It would amount to nothing more than the supreme command and direction of the military and naval forces, as first general and admiral of the Confederacy; while that of the British king extends to the declaring of war and to the raising and regulating of fleets and armies,¾ all which, by the Constitution under consideration, would appertain to the legislature."
-The Federalist No. 69

"Any power that can be abused will be abused."
— Tyranny Law #1

"Abuse always expands to fill the limits of resistance to it."
— Tyranny Law #2

"If people don't resist the abuses of others, they will have no one to resist the abuses of themselves, and tyranny will prevail."
— Tyranny Law #3

I wonder if, one day soon, our generation will begin to re-think what we have allowed our elected representatives do with the Constitution, how they have abused and blurred the limits on their power to their benefit and, likely, to our detriment. Do we even know it yet?

Interesting thread. Have a great day.

 

[surplus1]

andymsn

Kudos to you, sir. I'm encouraged to see that not all of us have lost our ability to reason.

 

[350DRIVER]

I think a great many of the WMD were being shipped to Syria while Hans and his friends were on their escorted tour of empty buildings. We gave the Iraqis all the time they needed to do this, all in the name of diplomacy

TB- I am amazed you have completely bought into false propaganda. Most of your posts are pretty reasonable and sensible, this one however is way out in right field. I think Surplus said it best..... The above is a complete fantasy and wishful thinking at it's best. What next are you going to believe (buy into) once this theory is shot down.??- Let me guess, now Russia is hiding these weapons of mass destruction or possibly France and Palestine are involved in this conspiracy as well. - Come on, obviously you are much smarter than this.

We have already found the chemical suits and antidotes. There is only ONE reason to have them, since we had no chemical or bio weapons to release in Iraq.

And I am sure that these were NOT left over from the Iraq/Iran war- nawwww.... I am also sure that Iraq is the only country in the Middle East that has these suits present day. Wishful thinking is one thing however reality is a completely different issue. I think the facts clearly speak for themselves, just take a look at them. I assume it is that Israel kool aid that maybee kicking in. ( I dunno for sure)

Bush's opponents are hoping (dare I say praying) that the public will call for this so-called "smoking gun". It isn't happening.

Do you forget already why this military action was initiated.?? Remember Powell and his cronies said that they had so so much evidence that Iraq was "hiding" these WofMD... Well sure looks like this "evidence" and "intelligence" may have been just a tad off. Looks like the UN was right in not backing this as well as most of the International community. It is extremely funny that now the propaganda has shifted and now we "must" free the Iraqi people as our main objective- come on...... This has little if anything to do with Bush's opponents and everything to do with this administration . It is the supporters of Bush who are praying that a "smoking gun" will be found to "attempt" to justify this military action and not to look anymore "foolish" than they already have done. (don't know if this is possible) - But wait, hey .. we must free the Iraqi people regardless of what happens-lol

Enlighten me: how is it possible for a President to "recover an economy"? The best we can do is stimulate the economy, and wait.

I think the best way is what Bush is doing> Largest budget in history, continue to give the rich nice tax breaks, tax breaks all across the board, invade countries that pose no threat to this country, don't worry about our airlines, etc.... (no sarcasm intended whatsoever)- I think we are pointed in the right direction, as you have said "stimulation" is best- lol

These "bins" are created by an evil belief that they are following. Can you sort out the difference between good and evil? How about countries that harbor terrorism which is pledged to destroy the US.

I will agree with you about this "evil belief" BUT one would be insane not to think many many more fanatics will be created after this war is over. We (the US) will not be viewed as anything more than "invaders" in the majority of people in the Middle East once this war is over and we sure can expect many more terror attacks against US interests. Let us keep siding with those crazy "jews" in Israel and continue with our lopsided policies and support for them and see what is going to happen. Many more terrorists will be created and I think that is pretty hard to dispute. Just take a look at history...

Do a little research on the town of Anniston, Alabama for starters.

food for thought.

11 mobile Chem labs

And your point is.? What was found in these labs, when were they last used, any war heads found near these labs, all the weapons created by these labs are where present day.?? (oops, they are in Syria right?-lol) Thank you. (!)

The "mainstrem press" hates the Bush administration as much as you do. They are flustered beyond words that Bush has succeeded, and that the Iraqi people are welcoming us as liberators.

How and why have you bought into this propaganda.? "Liberators" huh?? Why don't we next "liberate" Syria, North Korea and the others.? (still waiting on that answer) I am sure those people would also welcome "us"- lol I assume though it is your opinion to just go after one country and let the others in other countries continue to suffer.

this is getting funnier by the post....

cheers

3 5 0

 

[mar]

ANDYMSN

Just in the nick of time.

Just when I was beginning to think I had lost my mind.

Andymsn saves the day.

In my mind it's perfectly clear to me that Bush has circumvented the Constitution (is acting unconstitutionally) and that Congress has abdicated their entire obligation with respect to this War.

And it is a War with a captial dubya.

This administration is so frickin' brazen they don't even try to hide behind tired rhetoric such as "Police Action" or "Military Intervention".

Nah. No need to even invoke the War Powers Act.

This is just War, Mano a Mano, and let's not make it messy by involving the Congress. They're much too busy to really know what's right and, besides that, *WE* have all the information and we can't share it on the basis of national security.

But you guys know the drill by now.

I'd like to see Bush impeached and his entire cabinet tried for abuse of office.

Good day.

 

[flywithastick]

There are generally three types of people who disagree with the agressive stance the US has taken against militent, imperialistic Islam:

1. Those who hate Bush and conservatives - yes, blind, emotional, irrational hate.

2. Those who believe in the proven lost cause of Communism and want it installed in the West/US.

3. the naive.

It's a new world folks... anyone can get ahold of a half dozen or so ounces of cesium chloride and a couple of pounds of black power and render a large portion of Washington DC uninhabitable. It's here folks. And this isn't even considering the hysteria and impact to the economy of uncorking a bio weapon somewhere. You airline folks feeling any pain from a couple dozen SARS deaths in the far east?!

It's time to get real and deal with the people who want to kill us.

andymsn - I'm with you on the US Constitution. But just how long has it been since the fed govt abided by that document? Let's look at the Constitutionality of the Labor Dept, Education Dept, Dept of Interior, EPA, HUD, FAA, etc, etc. if we're going to question "W's" authority to wage war.

surplus1 - Just when has "W" invoked God in any of his doctrines? Obviously he has faith, but your equating him with fanatical Islamics such as OBL, Ayatola Khomenni, et. al. is way, way off. You just make this stuff up as you go?!

mar/350 - you folks fly gas-guzzling aircraft for dollars? Bourgeoit guys like you shouldn't be doing that... how about painting, farming or maybe blacksmithing. You wouldn't be working for "the man" either, mar! Ha!

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

When are people like you going to get it right and admit that what President Bush is doing is the right thing? Time and time again President Bush has been proven right. He has yet to truely lead us astray. Democrats fussed over the tax cut, yet the economy came back and continues to climb

KSU Aviator,


Are you kidding? Try telling everyone this board that the economy is coming back. Industrial production numbers came in today and are down for March -0.5%. Consensus on the leading economic indicators is for slightly negative growth. In other words, still contraction in the economy. Obviously you will think what you will but Bush hasn't done jack with the economy. Sounds like you're living in a vacuum because most people are having extreme difficulty finding jobs and nobody is getting promoted or receiving large raises/bonuses, except the absolute highest level executives (but that's a corporate governance problem and a topic for another time). My company will be laying off/separating 1,800 employees by June 30th and we are making $$$.

I think we're still in for another few months of rocky times and possibly more. Bush needs some positive vital signs by next year or he is D-U-N.... Done!! It has nothing to do with whether I like or dislike the guy. The economy will be the number one reason he either gets re-elected or does not get re-elected.

The economy has already come back. Sure.


Mr. I.

 

[mar]

Have you read my posts?

Flywithastick--If you've followed my posts in the past (and I think you have) then you'll acknowledge my protest of the war is simply on the grounds of working through the democratic process.

I never mention oil.

I never mention hidden weapons.

I never mention brutality.

My problem is that I read a lot about how the US holds itself out to the rest of the free world as its "leader".

I ask: How can we lead the free world when we systematically bypass our own checks and balances?

I think we have, far and above, the very best system of government in the entire world but not even our (chosen?) leaders trust it enough to let it work.

I never said nothing should be done about Hussein.

I've been saying all along that if we are to maintain a position of credibility and respect in the global community then we absolutely must conduct ourselves above reproach.

Sadly, ever since Bush took office, we have seen a steady erosion of very basic principles that made America great:

No unlawful search and seizure;
Due process;
Speedy trail;
De-centralization of executive power;
Freedom of speech...

...etc...

Now please don't explain to me--AGAIN--why it's so important to maintain "Homeland Security". I undertand it all very well.

Before I close I'd like to respond to your three points:

1) Hate *is* an emotion. At this point I regret taking the bait earlier in the thread, but I cannot deny it. I really resent Bush and his cronies. What can I say except that I'm pretty famous for giving people the benefit of the doubt--and I'm continually disappointed by Bush and company.

2) I don't understand how my insistence that we abide by the US Constitution is an endorsement of implementing Communism here in the States. Sounds like paranoid trash to me.

3) Naive? Idealistic maybe. Perhaps I should apologize for embracing higher principles than Let's Get the Bast*rds Before They Get Us.

Peace brother.

 

[flywithastick]

Re: Have you read my posts?

3) Naive? Idealistic maybe. Perhaps I should apologize for embracing higher principles than Let's Get the Bast*rds Before They Get Us.

I wouldn't appologize, but I do think many may tend to over think the situation between the West and militant Islam. They are convinced we and our way of life is evil and we must die. Sometimes simple is the best course of action.

Peace brother. [/B]

and also with you!

BTW, I'm a believer in directly following the US Constitution. I don't buy any of this "living document" cr@p. I'd sure be happy if all the fed govt abided by it with all they did. Including searches & seizures, surveillance, privacy, bloated federal bureacracy and true protection of our borders.

gotta go flying... later.

 

[Swass]

I think it's funny as hell how a bunch of pilots start yapping about how the current system is broke under Bush, how did you all feel when Clinton was in office breaking the law and lying to the public to our faces. You Bush haters try everything you can to trash his administration. Bush has done everything he said he was going to do. He has taken the war to people who harbour terrorists and train them and also has defeated an evil regime that has no respect for the lives of it's own people, and you still think Bush is wrong. He said he would do it and he has. He has been very forthright and candid with this country, not to mention he has brought his faith to the forefront. I am not brainwashed by the administration or some right wing radio programs, I look at what is happening as a whole, and I like what Bush has brought back to the Oval Office.


" Sadly, ever since Bush took office, we have seen a steady erosion of very basic principles that made America great:"


Whatever. This doesn't even deserve a rebuttal after what was in office prior to Bush.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Ok, about the economy...think what you will, but I was laid off 30 days before I began working at a new company. Then I moved my wife here and she found a job in less than a week. Don't tell me the economy is bad. That is just an excuse for not going out and finding a job. Ya they aren't just handing out jobs any more, but if you work for it you'll find a job and quick.

As for the Constitutionality of the Iraq war, Congress did give President Bush the required "permission" for combat activities in Iraq. Even if they hadn't President Bush has a set amount of time to wage combat activities without congressional approval.

And, as for finding WMD, if the lab to make the weapon isn't enough for you, or the fact that they burried it to hide it from bombs then the report from CBS about several hundred sites with possible WMD stored in them should at least get you to thinking maybe its true. But I doubt it will. You'll do anything to deny the truth. It baffels me how people can be so ignorant as to not see just how dangerous this region is.

This is WWIII. There is no two ways about it. The only difference is we are fighting a group of people that have no soveriegn country they call home. Only sympathetic countries that support their efforts. Syria and Iran now realize how serious we are. They are coming around and they now know they can't screw with us. They will cooperate or they will be treated accordingly.

 

[mar]

While we're at it...

Swass--you dope. I hate Clinton too. At least he could speak in a complete sentence.

KSU--"Sovereignty" = Rightful status, independence, or prerogative.

Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Syria are, in fact, sovereign.

This ain't WWIII.

This is the US against the world.

C'mon. Who's next? I'll take ya'll on by myself.

 

[350DRIVER]

This is getting more hilarious by the post.. Swass, KSU, flywithastick please continue to give the majority of us laughs...

Don't tell me the economy is bad.

NO, it is great.... Unreal in fact- I couldn't imagine it being any better. (no sarcasm intended)- Thank YOU "Dumbya"..
For kicks, go back and re-read your posts, you may even laugh yourself...

You'll do anything to deny the truth. It baffels me how people can be so ignorant as to not see just how dangerous this region is

Wake up- I would highly suggest changing the coffee or kool aid that you are currently drinking. Seriously though, do you always buy into false propaganda and believe things without factual evidence.?- Your response is a complete joke, read what you write- ! !

Syria and Iran now realize how serious we are. They are coming around and they now know they can't screw with us.

LOL- too funny... I can only imagine your reasoning behind this one.

Bush has done everything he said he was going to do.

The poor b@S$&*$ can't even speak properly- Listen to him, most are embarrassed to have him in office- 2004, just wait.. What has he done productive.?? Come on- wake up to reality...The guy is a complete moron....

mar/350 - you folks fly gas-guzzling aircraft for dollars? Bourgeoit guys like you shouldn't be doing that... how about painting, farming or maybe blacksmithing. You wouldn't be working for "the man" either, mar! Ha!

And you buy into false propaganda and speak complete nonsense with regards to politics... Your point.?? - You ever think about facing reality and trying to open your mind to what is happening present day.?? <didn't think so>


cheers

3 5 0

 

[rightrudder]

Here are the lyrics from a song put out in 1985 by Time Zone (a collaboration of John Lydon and Afrika Bambaataa). For those of you too young or old to have heard it, they occaisionally play this at the end of some Sopranos episodes.

The words are particularly chilling - especially given the new world order.

World Destruction

Speak about destruction. (x3)
This is a world destruction, your life ain't nothing.
The human race is becoming a disgrace.
Countries are fighting with chemical warfare.
Not giving a dam about the people who live.
Nostradamus predicts the coming of the Antichrist.
Hey, look out, the third world nations are on the rise.
The Democratic-Communist Relationship,
won't stand in the way of the Islamic force.
The CIA is looking for other detectives.
The KGB is smarter than you think.
Brainwash mentalities to control the system.
Using TV and movies - religions of course.
Yes, the world is headed for destruction.
Is it a nuclear war?
What are you asking for?
This is a world destruction. Your life ain't nothing.
The human race is becoming a disgrace.
The rich get richer.
The poor are getting poorer.
Fascist, chauvinistic government fools.
People, Moslems, Christians and Hindus.
Are in a time zone just searching for the truth.
Who are you to think you're a superior race?
Facing forth your everlasting doom.
We are Time Zone. We've come to drop a bomb on you.
World destruction, kaboom, kaboom, kaboom!
I'm going out of my mind that makes two of us-I'm going out of my mind
This is the world destruction, your life ain't nothing.
The human race is becoming a disgrace.
Nationalities are fighting with each other.
Why is this? Because the system tells you.
Putting people in faceless categories.
Knowledge isn't what it used to be.
Military tactics to control a nation.
Who wants to be a president or king? Me!
Mother Nature is gonna work against you.
Nothing in your power that you can do.
Yes, the world is headed for destruction.
You and I know it, the Bible tells you.
If we don't start to look for a better life,
the world will be destroyed in a time zone!
I'm in a time zone (x3) Speak about destruction (x1) I'm in a time zone (x3)
Speak about destruction (x1)