Cmr Situation

[Raoul Duke]

Skywest needs Comair's 200s like a hooker needs crabs. . .

 

[flyboyike]

In the end, it's going to be labor that brings the company to its demise.

Can I ask you to clarify that statement? I especially would like to know why it's my job to prevent the company's demise. I thought that's why we had management, right? I'll be responsible for my passengers and my fellow crewmembers , I'll be responsible for flying an ILS to the mins to a safe landing, I'll be responsible for continually maintaining and improving my skills, but I will not be responsible for their failed business model. If said business model is such that they can't afford to pay me a decent wage, then what needs to change is the business model, not the wage.

I don't think there was ever a demise of a company due to labor, and no amount of concessions can save you from incompetent management.

 

[PuffDriver]

You are confused. Delta pilots have the same corporate relationship to Delta, Inc, as Comair pilots. They both work for separate, but wholly-owned subsidiaries of Delta, Inc. Delta, Inc. owns and distributes the flying. Delta pilots own a piece of paper that makes them believe that they own the flying. If they owned the flying, then Delta pilots would be performing the flying. The piece of paper they own is like a mirage in the desert or a big pacifier--a False Quit Claim Deed. Interestingly enough, a large amount of the flying that Delta, Inc. owns is contracted out. Can Delta pilots terminate or execute those contracts? If they owned or really controlled the flying, then the answer would be yes!

As one who is now famous for the quote "go do your homework", I think that you should take your own advice. Delta Air Lines Inc. ISwho the Delta pilots work for, have a binding agreement, and receive compensation. Comair pilots work for a wholly owned subsidiary, have an agreement with Comair, and receive compensation from Comair. There is no Delta wholly owned subsidiary. The Delta pilots' relationship with Delta Air Lines is most certainly NOT the same relationship that Comair pilots have.

The "piece of paper we own" is a legally binding contract with Delta Air Lines Inc.--commonly referred as Delta. It is not a mirage, a false quit claim deed or any other word you looked up in the dictionary. It holds the sole bargaining rights with Delta Air Lines Inc with regard to who performs flying, and also contains stipulations for contracting out flying to affiliates, contract carriers, and wholly owned subsidiaries--aka Comair. I know you guys like to try and muddy the waters with fallacious logic, and if it strokes your Napolean complex-- I say knock yourself out. The truth is the truth, albeit distasteful to senior Comair pilots.

There is a difference between owning and controlling the flying. This is also addressed in the legally binding contract which the Delta pilots have with Delta Air Lines Inc. Ownership means that all flying belongs to the Delta pilots. It is undisputed. It is black and white. To answer your question,
yes, the Delta pilots can cancel contract flying upon renewal of the contract by removing caveats in the contract which allow outsourcing. Contract flying exists at the whim of the Delta pilots during contract negotiations. Basing ones career on the whim of another pilot groups is not sound financial planning IMO, but to each his own.

As it stands, the true beauty of the Delta pilots scope lies not in the verbiage, but in economics. Many predicted the lack of viability of small RJs. Their profitability was based on high fares, frequency, low wages, and low fuel prices--none of which were sustainable. Now the chickens come home to roost. Sure, Delta pilots allow outsourcing, but that outsourcing is no longer profitable-nor can be pen-swiped to make it even look profitable. Somebody, maybe even you, said that this flying is not going away--just changing hands. Wrong and right. It is going away, and changing back to mainline. Frequency is being reduced system wide to several RJ cities--TUL, OMA, OKC to name a few. Instead, those frequencies are lower, and on mainline equipment--as they should be. Not only is this happening at Delta , but other majors as well. It shows the lack of vision of late 90, early 2000 leadership which ultimately failed and sent several carriers to BK. Those days are over. Not only that, but now companies can control the quality of their product better--another failed experiment, we get our customers off of an airplane which is a fine business jet but a lousy airliner, and wages will improve and hiring will resume at airlines with much better working conditions, wages, and retirement. Win, win-except for those who chose to base their career on a contract carrier.

 

[buscap]

Not only that, but now companies can control the quality of their product better--another failed experiment, we get our customers off of an airplane which is a fine business jet but a lousy airliner, and wages will improve and hiring will resume at airlines with much better working conditions, wages, and retirement. Win, win-except for those who chose to base their career on a contract carrier.

You are wrong on a few points.

1. The wages at mainline will remain the same or even shrink in order to resecure this flying. The legacy business model will not support most of the flying we do.

2. While we do have RJs doing what should be mainline work, most of the flying we do can't be done by present day mainline equipment and rates, unless folks in Albany Ga are happy with a 737 dropping in two times a week. The majority of our flying is traditional regional work and as such, the passengers are better served on jets than props. (By all means, I agree, they should not be subjected to a 3 hour RJ ride, between hubs)

3. Few CHOSE to hang their hats at the contract carriers. The scope given away by mainline pilots forced us into this situation. Correction of the mistake may be in order, but I believe it will be a shortsighted "big RJ" grab, which will not fix the problem. Take it all in-house and copy Southwest scope in one big suck of planes and pilots, or expect to be right back here very shortly.

 

[PuffDriver]

You are wrong on a few points.

1. The wages at mainline will remain the same or even shrink in order to resecure this flying. The legacy business model will not support most of the flying we do.

2. While we do have RJs doing what should be mainline work, most of the flying we do can't be done by present day mainline equipment and rates, unless folks in Albany Ga are happy with a 737 dropping in two times a week. The majority of our flying is traditional regional work and as such, the passengers are better served on jets than props. (By all means, I agree, they should not be subjected to a 3 hour RJ ride, between hubs)

3. Few CHOSE to hang their hats at the contract carriers. The scope given away by mainline pilots forced us into this situation. Correction of the mistake may be in order, but I believe it will be a shortsighted "big RJ" grab, which will not fix the problem. Take it all in-house and copy Southwest scope in one big suck of planes and pilots, or expect to be right back here very shortly.

1) Mainline wages have bottomed, and largely because of BK threats. With less frequency comes price control. With price control comes fare hikes. With fare hikes comes profitability. With profitability comes larger wages. Conversely, inflated, false profits have evaporated at regionals. connect the dots.

2) Nobody said that 50 seat rjs are going away. There is absolutely a niche for 50 seat rj flying. 5-9 frequency pairs are the ones in jeopardy of being replaced by mainline. 4-6 frequency will probably be reduces to 3 a day. Twice a day is probably toast. 50 seat rjs are not going away, just a drastic reduction.

3) The correction is natural. Mainline is doing nothing. Economics have entered a paradigm shift. It's permanent. Delta pilots' work is being done for them.

 

[tiffanytaylor]

Our 50 seat base at CVG is going away in 2011, going to DTW
70/90 to stay based in CVG for now

On Epic.

 

[flyboyike]

3) The correction is natural. Mainline is doing nothing. Economics have entered a paradigm shift. It's permanent. Delta pilots' work is being done for them.

For all of our sakes, I very much hope you're right.

 

[N813CA]

Love ya Delta Pilots... I also feel sorry for you.. You are really really sad people. Delta could have and will tell Comair to do whatever they want Comair to do. So guess what your management let you down when you wanted recall rights. BIG D has the right to do that. So go ask your management why they didn't help you out. ASA did but they weren't owned by Delta. All non owned Delta groups were required to do it under ALPA.

 

[PuffDriver]

Love ya Delta Pilots... I also feel sorry for you.. You are really really sad people. Delta could have and will tell Comair to do whatever they want Comair to do. So guess what your management let you down when you wanted recall rights. BIG D has the right to do that. So go ask your management why they didn't help you out. ASA did but they weren't owned by Delta. All non owned Delta groups were required to do it under ALPA.

This is just pathetic, incorrect, and so far off base. You've been voted off the island. :erm:

 

[N813CA]

your saying Delta can't control what it owns? Hello wake up or stop drinking the red stuff.