C'mon July

[pilotyip]

I agree. Textron and Cessna are being run by former GE execs. They were not got to stand for forty million per year losses. Cessna is in the business of selling airplanes. When the fractional model was going full swing they were selling plenty of airplanes though CA. The changes were coming whether we liked it or not.

And there is nothing a union can do about that, exceept to make it so hard to make changes that it is easier to shut it down.

 

[imacdog]

YIP if USAJet pilots wanted to organize, would your head explode?

Also, could you answer why NetJets has been able to make changes resulting in profit turnarounds while also having a unionized pilot group with a CBA?

 

[pilotyip]

Also, could you answer why NetJets has been able to make changes resulting in profit turnarounds while also having a unionized pilot group with a CBA?

yea they laid off around 500 pilots for up to 10 years, same a CA is doing, the unions could nothing about that. like I said job security and a union really don't have much to do with each other. BTW The trouble with FI is if you are not 100% banner carrying union supporter, you must be 100% against all union activity. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, but don't ever post that because the arrows will fly.

 

[imacdog]

I'm not talking about layoffs. I'm talking the health of the company. If NetJets, a unionized company, can make a turnaround in their business, even with a pilot CBA, doesn't that make you full of crap?

 

[imacdog]

Why is there no addressing that the CA business model was not sustainable and changes needed to be made in order to attempt to save the company? Without changes there is no company. As stated many times before a union can not provide job security and often bring about a quicker death of the company by resisting changes that need to be made.

Just so we're clear, this is where you're full of crap.

 

[Sparse]

Same as my experience at a IBT place that went out of business, they took dues out of severance pay.

Exactly the reason to never give in to unions demand for dues checkbook. It's like giving someone your checking account routing numbers. When the union gets dues check off and agency shop, it has a predictable and some what guaranteed income stream and any incentive to listen to members is diminished.

 

[pilotyip]

Just so we're clear, this is where you're full of crap.

Wow! you are really excited about this, frustrated with a post, so resort to name calling. But it is so FI it is to be expected. So back to the beginning how is being laid off with a CBA, different than being laid off without a CBA? You are still unemployed, and like the CBA covered NJ pilots, it is for a real real long time. But a number of NJ guys have found employement at KYIP

 

[imacdog]

Calling you full of crap is not name-calling. It is calling you out on your statements that are entirely incorrect. Still can't answer my question, I see. Why is it, that NetJets can make the changes to their operation necessary for financial turnaround, while having a unionized pilots work force? I typed really slow this time so you should be able to read it better.

 

[gunfyter]

How does Southwest make profits?

 

[CA1900]

... how is being laid off with a CBA, different than being laid off without a CBA? You are still unemployed, and like the CBA covered NJ pilots, it is for a real real long time.

Well, just to pick one example, the NJ pilots will have the opportunity to return when recalls happen, and with the same date of hire. For a different example, look at Flexjet, which will offer recalls the opportunity to interview for their old jobs, and start them back off at year 1 if they're "lucky" enough to get their jobs back.