Climb Rates?

[46Driver]

Just curious to know about the other aircraft's climb rates.
We took the duty at Fredericton today and the controller gave us cleared to 26,000. I started the stopwatch as the throttles were advanced and recorded the following:
10,000 ft @ 2:58
18,000 ft @ 5:40
20,000 ft @ 6:55
25,000 ft @ 9:23

The following conditions applied:
1) takeoff weight was 29,000 lbs (Dornier empty weight is 21,300 and Dornier max takeoff weight is 34,500)
2) altimeter of 30.43 (that cost us 500 ft going through FL180)
3) OAT of -8 C
4) standard profile flown of 190 knots to 3,000
250 knots to 10,000
265 knots/.55M above 10,000

And yes, I know we are slow in level flight .66M/300knots with bird strikes from the rear. Just curious about other aircraft.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Boy, were you bored!


(Just kidding. I've done that too...although I didn't keep that good a record.)

 

[46Driver]

Boy, were you bored! .)

You have no idea....... Would you also like to know that the magenta display on the FMS skips .9 and .4 as it measures distance to target? (Must be some kind of metric to English conversion is the best guess I've heard.)

I'll be glad to strap back into the helo this week!

 

[fr0g]

Cessna 172:

10,000 ft @ quite a while
18,000 ft @ only in an updraft
20,000 ft @ never
25,000 ft @ not in a million years

These test were done at an OAT of -2 degrees centigrade, with a average lapse rate of 2.5 degrees/1000 feet. Average barometric pressure was 29.94 in. hg, and best rate of climb (Vy) was maintained throughout the climb. Engine was operated at maximum power, with a fuel mixture setting of 50 degrees rich of peak. Takeoff gross weight: 2000 lbs. Average fuel burn: 7.4 gal/hr.

now you all know what's it's like to fly the mighty 172
(sorry.. it's late and I'm bored)

 

[avbug]

Climb in a Lear 24D: 6,000-12,000 fpm (empty, initial). Turn downwind after takeoff at 18,000'.

Climb in a Cheyenne II: 2,000 fpm.

Climb in a Cessna 310: 1,500 fpm.

Climb in a Cessna 172: 500 fpm.

Climb in a PB4Y-2: Priceless.

(only aircraft I've flown in which an engine failure at V1 with an emergency dump and return for landing netted a call to crash rescue when we couldn't climb high enough to be seen from the airport, on the downwind...or in which a normal takeoff required both crewmembers looking for television antennas on folks houses. And one of the few four engine aircraft for which power lines are a real issue...for most of the flight).

I loved that airplane.

 

[banned username 2]

My best was in a Lear 35, very lightly loaded, no pax, cold day...

1:58 after brake release I was at 18,000ft doing 250 KIAS...

Took off from a 600 MSL airport

 

[Vector4fun]

10,000 ft @ 2:58

If it was a BAC146 in summer, I'd say two hours and fifty eight minutes to 10,000' is about right!

 

[mar]

The lowest and loudest

DC6
100,000#

OAT +20C Climb to 10,000
About 40 minutes
300 fpm
VFR climb thru 4000 to avoid vectoring.

OAT -20C Climb to 10,000
About 20 minutes
600 fpm

Fly safe.

 

[Weasil]

PC9

Pilatus PC9 - best climb rate I ever got in a propellor a/c.
At light weights could reach 3500-4000'/min (ISA)

 

[DC-3TP]

Climb in a T-38

If memory serves me. Climb is about 27,000 feet per min in full AB. Climb starts out at 350 KIAS to 10,000 then accelerate to .9 there after. Other military aircraft probably beat that by a bunch. Even when the climb is done at mil power the vsi is pegged at 6000 fpm. I remember that if you are climbing at .9 mach and holding 10 degrees nose high, you will be climbing at 9000 fpm.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I once saw the C.A.F.'s B-26 Marauder--I think her name was Carolyn--take off from TYS. When she went out of sight, perhaps ten miles out, she was still down around 1,000 feet and clawing for more.

 

[avbug]

Sure, if you want to do it the easy way.

How about coming down? 11,000-22,000 fpm in relaxing freefall from FL180 in a tee shirt, sandals, and lots of fresh air. Much better than riding the airplane down with a low experience wet behind the ears kid driving like he's God of the Vomit Commet.

Safer, too. What goes up, must come down. (except inflation)

 

[bart]

Heck, even under canopy a good front riser turn can give you 4 to 6000 fpm... down.

 

[kevdog]

HOOK IT!!

 

[bart]

Good idea, maybe next time you will get caught down in the "corner"...

Blue Skies, Black Death

 

[kevdog]

Sorry, that doesn't happen.

 

[Cpt. Underpants]

An F1 Team Rocket will hit 10 000' in 1 min 50 secs.

Mind-Boggling performance in a stunning aircraft. Will can a PC-9 in everything except top speed, then only by 20 kts (at 1/4 of the fuel burn and 1/20 of the price)

 

[avbug]

Hook turns? Do enough of them, and it WILL happen. Bank on it. These have always been a bad idea, and always will be. Testosterone does not make up for common sense.

 

[banned username 2]

Testosterone does not make up for common sense.

Now THAT is a D@MN good quote!

 

[kevdog]

Hook turns? Do enough of them, and it WILL happen. Bank on it. These have always been a bad idea, and always will be. Testosterone does not make up for common sense.

I do not know your skydiving experience or skill, but not too many pilots think of skydiving as having any "common sense."

just my .02 cents

 

[PA-44Typed]

Not to hijack the thread or anything but I have seen too many friends “hook themselves in” and either die or end up not walking for several months. I hope that the trend of drop zones banning Hook turns continues. We take risks in this sport as it is, we do not need to take any unnecessary risks.

 

[avbug]

Kevdog,

Eighteen years in the sport. I started jumping T-10's, thought PC's were the cutting edge (they were), and presently own two different sport rigs. I have been on scene to whitness and treat the aftermath of too many hook turns (including watching one fatality this summer and then being first on scene for the next, three weeks later).

I've seen hotshots come and go, all of whom think hook turns are the way to go. Today people are jumping canopies that are too small; no matter how you slice it. Some of these canopies must be dived to be landed; they need the speed to achieve any retarding drag in a flare or landing to arrest the descent.

The number of jumps that users of this high performance equipment have, is going down. It's tantamount to private pilots trying to land high performance turbojet equipment, improperly. Today, we see far more fatalities from jumpers trying to land a perfectly good canopy, than we do from jumpers suffering a malfunction, colliding in flight, or other typical causes. When people are getting killed more frequently in normal landings than all other causes combined...what does that tell you?

Hook turns have always been a stupid idea, and always will be. they're dangerous.

 

[MarineGrunt]

Whats a hook turn?

-DumbGrunt

 

[kevdog]

Avbug,

I have been jumping about 11 years myself. I currently jump a crossed-braced canopy with a wing-loading around 2.2 to 1. I do not consider myself a hotshot and although I like to swoop, I like to be very graceful with my landings. I usually initiate a 270 degree carving dive around 1000 feet if the area is clear, otherwise I will set-up for a straight in approach. If you think a dive is necessary to land, you are very wrong. My canopy has more flare straight-in than the big ones I used to jump 10 years ago due to its design. Thank God I got into the sport after the square canopy became widespread, otherwise my knees might have been destroyed. I agree with you that people downsize nowadays too quickly, but like everything else with the sport skill, knowledge of what you are doing, and ducking the complacency punch will keep you alive more than anything else. A student canopy can kill you if you fly it the wrong way too. Over the years, I have had 8 friends die skydiving and only 1 from a hookturn. The last annual fatality report I read had landings as one of the biggest pieces of the pie, but not the biggest. I know a few years back when the new canopies were introduced it was the biggest, but since then people have learned how to fly them better and safer.

Unfortunately, most skydivers don't understand the basic principles of flight and weather, especially green ones with around 500 jumps who start downsizing canopies. AFF teaches you only the basic survivor skills to freefall, open, and hopefully land safely. I have always had a problem with this since I was a pilot before a skydiver. Most skydivers in their first 5 years can't even tell you why the canopy flies and I see themselves set up for a landing that puts them into the most turbulent area of the dropzone. Why? They don't know any better.

I believe in Darwinism, especially with such a potentially dangerous sport like skydiving.

Blue Skies and Safe Landings (slow or fast)!

 

[kevdog]

And for the original message of this thread.

A 727 RE, light or heavy will respectively climb around 6,000 or 4,000 FPM all the way to 330.

These have the MD-80 JT8D-219 engines.

 

[kevdog]

Whats a hook turn?

A hook turn is when you put your canopy into a diving turn to land. Your speed increases and if done properly, you swoop the ground.

"Hooking it" got a bad rap from the older style canopies that made you initiate your hook around 150 feet above the ground. A few feet off and splat. The newer design canopies allow you to start much higher 500-1000 feet depending on how long you keep it in a turn. This gives you more time to make little corrections throughout the manuever.