Climb Rates?

[PA-44Typed]

Not to hijack the thread or anything but I have seen too many friends “hook themselves in” and either die or end up not walking for several months. I hope that the trend of drop zones banning Hook turns continues. We take risks in this sport as it is, we do not need to take any unnecessary risks.

 

[avbug]

Kevdog,

Eighteen years in the sport. I started jumping T-10's, thought PC's were the cutting edge (they were), and presently own two different sport rigs. I have been on scene to whitness and treat the aftermath of too many hook turns (including watching one fatality this summer and then being first on scene for the next, three weeks later).

I've seen hotshots come and go, all of whom think hook turns are the way to go. Today people are jumping canopies that are too small; no matter how you slice it. Some of these canopies must be dived to be landed; they need the speed to achieve any retarding drag in a flare or landing to arrest the descent.

The number of jumps that users of this high performance equipment have, is going down. It's tantamount to private pilots trying to land high performance turbojet equipment, improperly. Today, we see far more fatalities from jumpers trying to land a perfectly good canopy, than we do from jumpers suffering a malfunction, colliding in flight, or other typical causes. When people are getting killed more frequently in normal landings than all other causes combined...what does that tell you?

Hook turns have always been a stupid idea, and always will be. they're dangerous.

 

[MarineGrunt]

Whats a hook turn?

-DumbGrunt

 

[kevdog]

Avbug,

I have been jumping about 11 years myself. I currently jump a crossed-braced canopy with a wing-loading around 2.2 to 1. I do not consider myself a hotshot and although I like to swoop, I like to be very graceful with my landings. I usually initiate a 270 degree carving dive around 1000 feet if the area is clear, otherwise I will set-up for a straight in approach. If you think a dive is necessary to land, you are very wrong. My canopy has more flare straight-in than the big ones I used to jump 10 years ago due to its design. Thank God I got into the sport after the square canopy became widespread, otherwise my knees might have been destroyed. I agree with you that people downsize nowadays too quickly, but like everything else with the sport skill, knowledge of what you are doing, and ducking the complacency punch will keep you alive more than anything else. A student canopy can kill you if you fly it the wrong way too. Over the years, I have had 8 friends die skydiving and only 1 from a hookturn. The last annual fatality report I read had landings as one of the biggest pieces of the pie, but not the biggest. I know a few years back when the new canopies were introduced it was the biggest, but since then people have learned how to fly them better and safer.

Unfortunately, most skydivers don't understand the basic principles of flight and weather, especially green ones with around 500 jumps who start downsizing canopies. AFF teaches you only the basic survivor skills to freefall, open, and hopefully land safely. I have always had a problem with this since I was a pilot before a skydiver. Most skydivers in their first 5 years can't even tell you why the canopy flies and I see themselves set up for a landing that puts them into the most turbulent area of the dropzone. Why? They don't know any better.

I believe in Darwinism, especially with such a potentially dangerous sport like skydiving.

Blue Skies and Safe Landings (slow or fast)!

 

[kevdog]

And for the original message of this thread.

A 727 RE, light or heavy will respectively climb around 6,000 or 4,000 FPM all the way to 330.

These have the MD-80 JT8D-219 engines.

 

[kevdog]

Whats a hook turn?

A hook turn is when you put your canopy into a diving turn to land. Your speed increases and if done properly, you swoop the ground.

"Hooking it" got a bad rap from the older style canopies that made you initiate your hook around 150 feet above the ground. A few feet off and splat. The newer design canopies allow you to start much higher 500-1000 feet depending on how long you keep it in a turn. This gives you more time to make little corrections throughout the manuever.