Cleared To Airport or VOR?????

[kf4amu]

True, but with all due respect to Mr. Brown - our ATC system was designed when we didn't have the ability to navigate directly to the airport.

True, and it's still not set up for it. What do you do when you go lost comms after going direct the airport...no instrument approaches begin with the airport as a IAF?

Just another example of how behind the times the FAA operates.

 

[crxpilot]

I personally go direct to the outer marker of the approach that will be used....maybe not correct but its the place where I know I need to be!

 

[satpak77]

I personally go direct to the outer marker of the approach that will be used....maybe not correct but its the place where I know I need to be!

yeah but that is not correct, come on my brother. that is way "less correct" then whether direct XXX is direct the VOR or direct the airport.

the "approach that will be used" might change when the wind direction changes. Now you are going to the (now not-in-use) fix on ILS to 03 but they are running ILS's and takeoffs to RWY 21, while you hang out off the departure end?

come on

lets look at the AIM glossary

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/PCG/D.HTM

DIRECT- Straight line flight between two navigational aids, fixes, points, or any combination thereof. When used by pilots in describing off-airway routes, points defining direct route segments become compulsory reporting points unless the aircraft is under radar contact.

also

ROUTE SEGMENT- As used in Air Traffic Control, a part of a route that can be defined by two navigational fixes, two NAVAIDs, or a fix and a NAVAID.

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/Chap5/aim0503.html

3. Area Navigation (RNAV) Routes.
(a) Published RNAV routes, including Q-Routes, can be flight planned for use by aircraft with RNAV capability, subject to any limitations or requirements noted on en route charts or by NOTAM.
(b) Unpublished RNAV routes SATPAK77 COMMENT: When ATC clears you present position, direct, they are bascially creating a instant-unpublished RNAV route are direct routes, based on area navigation capability, between waypoints defined in terms of latitude/longitude coordinates, degree-distance fixes, or offsets from established routes/airways at a specified distance and direction. Radar monitoring by ATC is required on all unpublished RNAV routes.​

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/Chap6/aim0604.html

3. IFR conditions. If the failure occurs in IFR conditions, or if subparagraph 2 above cannot be complied with, each pilot shall continue the flight according to the following:
(a) Route.
(1) By the route assigned in the last ATC clearance received;
(2) If being radar vectored, by the direct route from the point of radio failure to the fix, route, or airway specified in the vector clearance;
(3) In the absence of an assigned route, by the route that ATC has advised may be expected in a further clearance; or
(4) In the absence of an assigned route or a route that ATC has advised may be expected in a further clearance by the route filed in the flight plan.​

 

[Duke of Ale]

To Mike Ox

Not necessarily so. Check Omaha. The VOR is the same name, not on the field, however the designator is different.

 

[Mike man]

Not necessarily so. Check Omaha. The VOR is the same name, not on the field, however the designator is different.

That is true but the name of the airport is not Omaha...it is Eppley. Like Louisville...direct to Louisville is different that direct to Standiford.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

That is true but the name of the airport is not Omaha...it is Eppley. Like Louisville...direct to Louisville is different that direct to Standiford.

Interesting point you make and I like it.

My next question does ATC know the names of the fields? Or are they most likely only familiar with OMA being Omaha, and not Eppley? Especially late at night when ATL Center clears you all the way there from the get go.

Also, have any of the above responses been from an ATC person? Would like to hear from somebody on that side too.

 

[satpak77]

Interesting point you make and I like it.

My next question does ATC know the names of the fields? Or are they most likely only familiar with OMA being Omaha, and not Eppley? Especially late at night when ATL Center clears you all the way there from the get go.

Also, have any of the above responses been from an ATC person? Would like to hear from somebody on that side too.

ATC does not know the name of every single airport in the world. Always confirm "direct Kilo Lima Alpha Xray" et etc, and WRITE IT DOWN on your little pad

get it on the box so you are covered when 5 sectors later the center controller doesn't question what you heard

 

[siucavflight]

Its all the same, just go somewhere and do what you want.

 

[Metro752]

Climbing through 23 out of LRD: Looking for direct Willow Run!?!

Houston: "Approved as requested, clrd direct Deeeeeeetroit, proceed direct Willow Run..."

Set heading bug to something that appears it will take you near the state of Michigan, then punch in GPS, fine tune heading, crosscheck XTK and such throughout flight! Cruise FL350, do not "really" start down until about 75 miles out, maybe 85? Depends. Get descents from ATC, make minimal effort and very shallow descent until they ask your rate, then increase maybe 500fpm until they leave you alone, or meet their silly crossing restrictions.

 

[LJ45]

IMHO...they should never give and off airport VOR the same ID as the airport, like they did at BTR.

FYI... Many times going into BTR I have had center say cleared to the BTR "VOR" then the airport. They know that BTR is a problem and will specifically say when they need you over the VOR first. If they don't say that, then it's the KBTR airport, since that is in my flight plan.

hope this helps.

 

[SSDD]

A few years ago the FAA started changing the names of the VOR that were not colocated. So Bakersfield became Shafter, Porterville became Tule, Fresno became Clovis, Reno was changed to Mustang, and so on. But in typical FAA fashion they never finished the job.

 

[Seadogrun]

I've only got a clearance to the field in if the field is VMC. Has anyone gotten this clearance when the field is IFR? Anyway if it's VMC lost and you loose coms you are to proceed VFR which would be direct to the field (if that's where you want to go).

 

[Skyboy722]

I'll tell you this... Back in the TWA days, when STL was a zoo, going direct to the airport when you were cleared "direct St. Louis" was grounds for immediate beheading.

 

[drinkduff77]

I had a controller clear me to Hartford and I asked him if he meant the airport or the VOR. He said in radar coverage it didn't matter as long as they are within five miles of each other. I'm not sure if there is any reference material for this of if he was making it up.

 

[ttflyer]

That is true but the name of the airport is not Omaha...it is Eppley. Like Louisville...direct to Louisville is different that direct to Standiford.

I dissagree with that logic. You still get your clearance to land from "Omaha tower" - not "Eppley tower." There are tons of other examples. There is no such thing as the "William B Hartsfield-Jackson International Tower", it is just "Altanta Tower." For our purposes (and ATCs), the name of the airport is whatever is shown on our chart, not what some stupid politician says it's called this week....

And as for VORs that are not located on the airport but have the same name (and identifier), I can think of three without trying very hard - I'm sure there are more...

MGM, JAN, LIT

It's clearly a grey area. I go direct to the airport when I'm given one of these clearances, for what it's worth...