Cleared Direct Destination?

[rettofly]

Just curious how you defined the intersection with only one vor?

1. Intercept and track the holding radial.
2. Switch VOR to the one defining the fix.
3. Dial up the radial for the fix.
4. Identify the VOR (or the DPE rolls his eyes).
5. When the needle centers, start the turn, report the hold, switch back to the other VOR and start the clock at the end of the turn.
6. Identify the VOR on the outbound leg (see above).
7. Start over from Step 1.

Like I said: Busy time-- like a one-armed paper hanger in a windstorm.

 

[sbav8r]

I disagree. You cannot do that accurately. FOr example say your flying outbound from ABC VOR on the 123ºRadial. Lets say UGLLY instersection is 25 NM out from that VOR on that same radial. Without DME, or someother navaid that can define that INTX you cannot do it. Especially not a stopwatch. Yes you could approximate your position based on an estimated GS, but you cannot acurately define this INTX.

I'm not sure but, but I think you might be on a different page than everyone else Kingair.

Your asking about finding an intersection with only one VOR (ground equipment) and the rest of us are answering you thinking in terms of VOR's in the cockpit.

FOr example say your flying outbound from ABC VOR on the 123ºRadial. Lets say UGLLY instersection is 25 NM out from that VOR on that same radial. Without DME, or someother navaid that can define that INTX you cannot do it.

If it is an intersction than by defenition you have two navaids. An intersection is where two radials cross from different navaids and one can define this intersection with one VOR in the aircraft.

 

[avbug]

If it is an intersction than by defenition you have two navaids. An intersection is where two radials cross from different navaids and one can define this intersection with one VOR in the aircraft.

A dme fix on a radial is also an intersection, though not an intersection between radials and airways. It's a position fix and the intersection, or meeting, of a circular arcing distance and a radial.

 

[KingAirer]

1. Intercept and track the holding radial.
2. Switch VOR to the one defining the fix.
3. Dial up the radial for the fix.
4. Identify the VOR (or the DPE rolls his eyes).
5. When the needle centers, start the turn, report the hold, switch back to the other VOR and start the clock at the end of the turn.
6. Identify the VOR on the outbound leg (see above).
7. Start over from Step 1.

Like I said: Busy time-- like a one-armed paper hanger in a windstorm.

please see my post above. I understand you can do it with one VOR receiver in the airplane. Im talking about THE ACTUAL VOR. you must have 2, or dme, or a bearing etc...

 

[oldp3guy]

The marvel is the technofreaks who don't believe it can be done, legally and safely, without dual FMS, flight director, and a Papal blessing.

Geez, what an intertaining thread!
Avbug: we must be dinosaurs from the same era. Only I didn't get a Papal blessing and now I'm feeling underappreciated.

When I was a military examiner, TACAN point to point nav was a standard part of the ride. On the 180 at 60 and want to go to the 090 at 30? Turn 045. Distance 90 nm. Simple. Don't have (or know what a TACAN is)? HSI/DME or OBS/DME works equally well.
Legal to accept? Absolutely.

These days I fly the TEB5 several times a month. Most guys bust the altitude restriction long before they get to the intersection. But you can bet your bippy that I've got the needles and DME up just in case the magic boxes don't do their thing.

Yes you could approximate your position based on an estimated GS, but you cannot acurately define this INTX.

True, but I never said I'd get a GPS accurate answer. Of course the accuracy is pretty dependant on how well I can determine my ground speed, and of course how well I time the CDI movement, but it seems to me that in most cases, I can get a position fix that's within 5-10%,

How wide is an airway, guys? 4 miles either side of the center line. You don't have to be within 200 feet of where the FMS thinks the intersection is to be accurately navigating in the NAS. Hypothetically, two of us could fly two separate airplanes to the same intersection at the same time and still be 8 miles apart.

My personal longest direct route flight? How about Honolulu to Maine? 12.7 hours March 15, 1980. Not many vectors available mid-Pacific. Not many VORs, either.
How did we ever do all those Lant/Pac crossings with only a wet compass and a coffee grinder loran A? Anyone know how to plot TDs?

Admittedly, punching "White" intersection into th FMS is simple and very accurate, but when the screen/computer/GPS fails and you're overwater, you might want to remember/learn some of the techniques that us old farts thought were just common every day procedure.

BTW, I flew this morning. IFR Cleared direct PNS - NEW. Report left base runway 18R. No SID, no STAR, no feeder fix. Happens all the time.

Fly safely out there guys!

 

[rettofly]

I understand you can do it with one VOR receiver in the airplane. Im talking about THE ACTUAL VOR. you must have 2, or dme, or a bearing etc... [/B]

Pls see Step 5 of the evolution, where you switch to the other VOR freq (and identify it to keep the examiner from inducing vertigo by rolling his eyes).
My real wakeup call was when my instructor for the CFII rating made me do a partial panel NDB approach before he sent me for the ride with the Fed. The ride with the Fed was anticlimactic.

 

[KingAirer]

I think your misunderstanding me here....In step 5 your refer to tuning in the OTHER VOR...meaning you must be using 2 navaids (although not exactly simultaneously) to ident this fix.
We are saying the same thing here.