Cleanup prior to acceleration altitude

[igneousy2]

My company just changed their procedures regarding when to start the cleanup (flap retraction, power reduction, auto-feather de-selected, speed increase to normal climb) in our turbo-prop aircraft. The procedure basically states that we shall clean-up at 500'AFL as long as we have both engines operating. Only in the event of an actual engine failure do we consider acceleration altitude. At one particular airport we operate out of we have an acceleration altitude of 1500'AFL. Our current procedures now require us to start the cleanup 1000' PRIOR to reaching this acceleration altitude. The increased acceleration altitude is due to the rapidly rising terrain immediately west of the field. My concern is what happens if we have an engine failure after 500 AFL but prior to reaching acceleration altitude.

Decreased climb performance due to reduction in power
Delay in getting prop feathered due to auto-feather being off
increased turing radius & lateral distance covered due to increased speed, etc. etc.

I talked to our Asst. POI about this and he informed me that he talked to the company that does the performance charts and they stated to him that everything in the performance charts are single engine and do not apply to two engine operations. I told him that I knew that, but everything we do concerning t/o are predicated on an engine failure. I do not believe that we can just assume we are above the clearence floor just because we used two engines up until 500'.

1. Am I wrong? What is the practice at other airlines when operating out of terrain unfriendly airports?

2. Any references that speak to this issue would be helpful.

Thanks

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

No doubt invented by the same guy who derived a blatently illegal night circling maneuver into MKK using "Kimo's porchlight" and lights from cars along a nearly deserted road for guidance.
I am shaking my head here.
Makes about as much sense to me as doing turning stalls at 3500' AGL over the water, AT NIGHT, with no discernable horizon....

God, I'd love to be a fly on the walls listening as some of this idiocy gets ran up the flag pole to see if anyone will salute it!

 

[TurboS7]

You can use a flap retraction altitude as low as 400 feet per FAR. Our company uses 1000 feet unless we need the performance then we go to 600 feet. For the 727 we have always used 600 feet. With multiengine aircraft the sooner you get the aircraft clean the safer the operation is. Your operation with the exception of the designated higher cleanup altitude(which is needed due to obstacles) has just become a lot safer.

 

[EagleRJ]

I think what your new rule says is that in the case of the 1500' acceleration altitude at the airport with terrain, that remains controlling for beginning your cleanup. 500' is for airports that only need a standard climb profile, and 500' is in line with other TP operators. Eagle uses 400' AFL for the TPs unless terrain dictates a higher altitude.

 

[igneousy2]

I think what your new rule says is that in the case of the 1500' acceleration altitude at the airport with terrain, that remains controlling for beginning your cleanup. 500' is for airports that only need a standard climb profile, and 500' is in line with other TP operators. Eagle uses 400' AFL for the TPs unless terrain dictates a higher altitude.

No, i've been round and round on this with management and the FAA. They do mean for us to clean-up and reduce power at 500' regardless of published acceleration altitude unless we have an engine failure prior to 500', then we clean up at acceleration altitude. I have still not got a straight answer as to what to do other than "to do whatever you have to to avoid the terrain."

To put it in Eagle language, the airport analysis/VAQ says 1500'AGL is acceleration altitude, however, we are going to clean up at 400' without regard to that unless we have an engine failure then and only then will we keep the configuration up to 1500'AGL.

and to turbos7...it's not the retraction of the flaps that bothers me it's the reduction in power and the turning off of the auto-feather system.

Later

 

[Cardinal]

We've always done it this way, and we operate out of alot of mounainous airports. With an engine failure after 400' feet simply treat it like an engine-failure-inflight, keep doing whatever you were doing, ie, fly the Jepp DP (or 200ft/nm), and it'll work out. Surely your engine failure procedure calls for setting max power anyway, right?

I must agree, however, turning off the autofeather is ghey. Different airplane, but we leave it on until cruise.