Class B misdemeanor?

[RipCurl]

A friend of a friend of a friend had a party this weekend, and everybody showed up, including the police. They broke up the party and also arrested and charged him with violating a city noise ordinance, which is a class B misdemeanor in his state. Is it worth spending the thousand dollars on lawyer and court fees to take it to district court and fight it, or should he just plead guilty, pay the $150 fine, and have it on his record? He talked to a lawyer who said they have a pretty good chance of fighting it, but also said that everybody and their mom has something like this on their record, so it might not be worth it. Any opinions on how it might effect his future in aviation?

 

[Metro752]

I don't have something like that on my record ....... because I'm a square and I play it safe.... I even double bag

 

[Doug]

IMO, I would fight it simply because $1k isn't worth it to me to have a criminal record. Although if I was poor and $1k was either more than I had, or would make me unable to pay the rent I would take the record.

What I am getting at, is if he can afford to fight it, IMHO he should.

 

[hoop]

Save the cash...

From my experience with silly city ordinances such as this, the cops came out because of a complaint. Maybe several in the neighborhood. Some of the big city cops have a decibel meter, and meter it before they bust you. The decibel level is recored, so its your word against theirs. My 2 cents says pay the silly ticket, you'll loose in court, and wonder why you didn't just pay it to begin with and be done with it. Don't know how it would affect your flying career though. I'm still a lowly student with a stupid grin on my face everytime I climb into the mighty warrior!

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Lots of competition for the good jobs out there, it might come back to bite him later.

 

[mayday1]

Lots of competition for the good jobs out there, it might come back to bite him later.

it might, but it was not drug, alcohol or driving related... and in all fairness, not a "serious" crime against society. I'm not trying to minimize a class B misdemeanor, but if he's upfront and honest about it on applications, and in interviews, I'd be surprised if this was a showstopper... that is, if he has a completely clean record otherwise, and not many traffic violations.

 

[JetSpeed219]

it might, but it was not drug, alcohol or driving related... and in all fairness, not a "serious" crime against society. I'm not trying to minimize a class B misdemeanor, but if he's upfront and honest about it on applications, and in interviews, I'd be surprised if this was a showstopper... that is, if he has a completely clean record otherwise, and not many traffic violations.

I agree with that, I don't see interviewers closing the book on him for getting arrested because he threw a good party! I think if he just explains it he'll be just fine..........

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Funny how the folks telling this guy that it is not a big deal are all very low time.

When you are in competition for a 4 million dollar career at a major airline......EVERYTHING counts.

Not saying that it will for sure flame him, but if they have the choice between 100 guys that have a whistle clean record, and a guy with a criminal record, no matter how silly, the whistle clean record guys will always have the advantage.

Not a show stopper for sure, but it will effect his prospects. Heck, too many speeding tickets can cause you to lose out, and I do not know many people that doesn't have at least one.

 

[scangadah]

Might hurt if your career ever requires you to fly into Canada.

 

[mayday1]

Funny how the folks telling this guy that it is not a big deal are all very low time.

When you are in competition for a 4 million dollar career at a major airline......EVERYTHING counts.

doesn't have anything to do with being low time... I may be low time in aviation, but have some quality time in other industries... industries where they do extensive background checks (criminal, credit, drug, education, identity, etc.). Of course, black marks in any of these areas is not good, but rarely an isolated incident (if in fact it is an isolated incident) such as this (noise ordinance violation) should not be a showstopper, or even much of a speed bump on the way to getting a good job -- whether it be pilot, executive, lawyer, etc.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Mayday,

Most of the HR departments at the Majors will disagree with you.

They have thousands to pick and choose from, why would they choose a criminal over a non criminal?

In their mind it is as simple as that....Criminal record or no criminal record. You have to realize that in a 121 incident where somebody is injured, the lawyers will have a field day with this pilots record, doesn't matter if he was to blame for the incident or not. HR departments consider things like that when making decisions.

In my professional opinion, the guy should try to fight it and at least have it reduced to a non misdemeanor citation. Major airlines have little sympathy or compassion when it come to things like this, they have plenty to choose from.

He can probably overcome such a problem, but having flown at a Major, and sat in on some of the hiring boards at my old regional, I can tell you it is much more than a speedbump if you are looking to fly for an airline. In an age where passenger perception is everything, it matters.

Spend the money on a good lawyer, chalk it up to an expensive lesson learned.

 

[sqwkvfr]

He talked to a lawyer who said they have a pretty good chance of fighting it, but also said that everybody and their mom has something like this on their record, so it might not be worth it.

This is diplo-speak for "just go and pay the ticket."

The PD that I was on had various things get tossed for stupid reasons, but we never lost a noise ordinance violation for a loud party...and we didn't have a decibel meter. The neighbor feeling compeled to call the police is almost prima facie evidence that the party was too loud...couple that with an officer's observations (keeping in mind that the last thing ANY cop anywhere wants to do is chase down stupid noise complaints all night and would just as gladly knock on your neighbor's door to tell him/her that the violation didn't warrant an arrest --i.e. leave us alone-- as waste a bunch of time at a loud party) and you've got a conviction...regardless of how "good" the defense attorney happens to be.

 

[vetteracer]

I would not bother fighting it.



IT is a testament to his ability to throw a good party!!!!!!!!!1

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I would not bother fighting it.



IT is a testament to his ability to throw a good party!!!!!!!!!1

Come to think of it....at the right airline it might be a plus!!!

 

[LewisU_Pilot]

Tell him to plead guilty and save the money. Hopefully he can lay low for 2-4 years before applying for a job. Any type of misdemeanor can be expunged. Meaning taking off your record for good. All documents/papers destroyed. When asked if you have ever been convicted of a crime i believe you can say no since everything is off your record. So tell him to plead guiltily and save the money for the expungement. I think you can get an expungement 2-4 years down the road through a lawyer.
Just my .02

 

[urflyingme?!]

Tell him to plead guilty and save the money. Hopefully he can lay low for 2-4 years before applying for a job. Any type of misdemeanor can be expunged. Meaning taking off your record for good. All documents/papers destroyed. When asked if you have ever been convicted of a crime i believe you can say no since everything is off your record. So tell him to plead guiltily and save the money for the expungement. I think you can get an expungement 2-4 years down the road through a lawyer.
Just my .02

Congratulations, you just got him fired on the first day of groundschool.
The airline ackground check will see everything from the day you were born. You have to tell them about every ticket misdemeanor etc ever CHARGED with, EVER. Or you won't make it, period. Doesn't really matter what it is, if you lie to them they will fire you...

 

[KlingonLRDRVR]

RipCurl,

Tell your friend before he dumps a ton of money on an Attorney to call Court Administration to find out who the Proscutor is for his case. Do it now! If time is short ask court admin. for a continuance. They will usually do it for a short time, but only once. Contact the prosecutor and see if you can personally meet with him for 10 minutes. Briing your ticket along with the police report you picked up from the police office so he does not have to hunt down your paperwork. He usually will not even get it unless you plead not guilty. Bring your own paperwork to see him/her. They will be impressed. Explain your situation to the prosecutor how this could really hurt your career. Don't make anything up and be honest. Tell him you are more than willing to pay the fine amount but you would like a continuance for dissmissal for 6 months with the fine amount going as costs of prosecution. If he says you have a deal, set up a time to meet with him at your court appearance date and get your agreement on the record so there is no question you have it. In 6 months the prosecutor will file a dismissal and you have no criminal record. If he says no dice, you will have to decide if you want to fight it. I know the gig, I'm a prosecutor for a small town. I've done this numerous times mostly for military types getting ready to leave for boot camp, even cops in training at the tech school. Good Luck.

KlingonLRDRVR

 

[pilot error]

get the lawyer, work a deal for a defered sentence. if he stays out of trouble to 12 months (or whatever time period the judge decides) it goes off his record as if it never happened. it's a better and cheaper deal than trying to get it expunged later.

 

[qmaster3]

Congratulations, you just got him fired on the first day of groundschool.
The airline ackground check will see everything from the day you were born. You have to tell them about every ticket misdemeanor etc ever CHARGED with, EVER. Or you won't make it, period. Doesn't really matter what it is, if you lie to them they will fire you...

How far back can the Airlines go... I thought there were federal laws about this, but am too lazy to look it up. I had a DUI in 98, and was told 10/yrs. It's never held me back, but I have never lied about it either. Security clearances...what have ya. As far as the Airlines I would never put offenses on the resume anyway. At least get yourself to the interview, and plead your case.



I wouldn't waive my right to a fair trial. You don't need a Lawyer, just do some research. Never know the judge might throw it out??

 

[OrphicSeth]

The airline ackground check will see everything from the day you were born. You have to tell them about every ticket misdemeanor etc ever CHARGED with, EVER. Or you won't make it, period. Doesn't really matter what it is, if you lie to them they will fire you...

What?

Even the speeding tickets one gets rubbed off the record by making a deal with the prosecutor and going to a defensive driving class, or other small items that have been expunged? When its expunged, its expunged-- or so I've always been told. Where do you get this info, and can anyone else back this up?

 

[pilot error]

if it is expunged it will not be found. it will no longer be on record.

 

[BR44]

Most jurisdictions have a non criminal option. Like you plead no contest and pay court cost or attend "don't do it again school", and providing you do not have a criminal record they will drop the case.

It is designed so that people don't have to ruin their futures for what amounts to a civil citation.

 

[qmaster3]

What about off the DMV record??? Will they find that?

 

[urflyingme?!]

All I know is that I know 3 people who all got pulled out of ground school for stuff on their record they thought was gone and then the background checks came through.
If you type expunge in search I believe there are a few more accurate explanations. I'm not positive but I believe the root of the new ability to go back as far as the airline wishes stems from the Patriot Act.
On my application for an airline it says have you ever been charged plead blah blah...
Maybe someone else will know the exact info. But the play dumb method in my opinion will get you screwed.....

 

[JB74]

Your NDR report will show the states where you had any major traffic offenses (careless, reckless, DUI, failure to submit to breathalizer and any type of suspension or revocation) but not the actual charge. An employer then will pull every state's DMV report that the NDR report lists. Some states purge their DMV records every 5-7 years, but the NDR action (which NEVER goes away) and the lack of you reporting something that happened 10 years ago will raise a red flag.

Your FBI background check will show ALL the times you have been arrested, guilty/not guilty/expunged/whatever. If you have ever been fingerprinted/arrested, the FBI has a record of it.



See for yourself:

Submit a written request to the FBI that includes your complete name, address and date of birth. Provide a copy of your passport (preferred), driver's license or other gov't issued proof of identity, along with a complete set of rolled-ink fingerprints. (You can get this done at your local police dept. for a small fee.)

Send the written request, fingerprints, and $18 (certified check or money order made out to the U S Treasury) to:

FBI-CJIS Division
SCU-MOD-02
1000 Custer Hollow Road
Clarksburg, WV 26306

 

[LewisU_Pilot]

Tell him to plead guilty and save the money. Hopefully he can lay low for 2-4 years before applying for a job. Any type of misdemeanor can be expunged. Meaning taking off your record for good. All documents/papers destroyed. When asked if you have ever been convicted of a crime i believe you can say no since everything is off your record. So tell him to plead guiltily and save the money for the expungement. I think you can get an expungement 2-4 years down the road through a lawyer.
Just my .02

Congratulations, you just got him fired on the first day of groundschool.
The airline ackground check will see everything from the day you were born. You have to tell them about every ticket misdemeanor etc ever CHARGED with, EVER. Or you won't make it, period. Doesn't really matter what it is, if you lie to them they will fire you...

Go look up the definition of expungement. Airlines will have nothing to look at if something has been expunged. Also 3 people got kicked out of your pvt pilot ground school? Maybe they just dropped the class.

 

[Metro752]

I hate looking to my right heading back to Morris from Shannons Landing at night over downtown Joliet, always hoping some idiot doesnt catapult off the runway and slam into me.

 

[air cowboy]

I find it hard to believe a noise violation is a mis. But anyway, last summer I got charged with felonies and a misdemeanor, and only yesterday did I make my last stand before the judge. I consulted 4 lawyers, 3 in the 1500-2000 range, and the best defense lawyer in the county at 7500. I loaned the money and went with the best. He got felonies dropped, and after much hee-hawing around got the cop and da to let me into ARD so I'll eventually have the misd. dropped and a clean record when I complete the program. I'll never know if the cheaper lawyers could have done it, but I suspect they couldn't. My case could be different than yours though, mine was a college prank gone wrong, with several accomplices that lied. Do a search and you can read all about it.
In my state misdemeanors cannot be expunged. However, once I complete ARD it can be expunged because there never was a conviction. Another note, somewhere on this site I read last summer that you can request the judge with hold adjucation. Don't know what it means, but do some searching and make your best decision. Good Luck.