Civilian vs. Military

[aviator4512]

I will soon be applying to college, and am hoping for a career flying jets (part 135, frac, or corporate) and am wondering what would be the best way to get there in terms of going military or going to a regular college...I Have gone to private school from 6-10 grades, and am pretty much a B student. I have thought about the military academies and aviation colleges such as embry-riddle, and purdue, but then again I could get a business degree somewhere else. So give me your opinions on what the company's are looking for other then a number of hours and experience.

 

[Frac Daddy]

I will soon be applying to college, and am hoping for a career flying jets (part 135, frac, or corporate) and am wondering what would be the best way to get there in terms of going military or going to a regular college...I Have gone to private school from 6-10 grades, and am pretty much a B student. I have thought about the military academies and aviation colleges such as embry-riddle, and purdue, but then again I could get a business degree somewhere else. So give me your opinions on what the company's are looking for other then a number of hours and experience.

My .02: Go to college and major in something other than aviation. Business would be good. Many people I have flown with in the past have utilized their skills outside of aviation(For example:One ex-accountant still prepares taxes another one is an RN and does per diem work).

As for Mil vs. Civ: Do you like the military? I think commitments are running 10 years for pilots. Great way to go, but if you are just using it as means to an end; 10 years is a long time. Bottom line is that there are many, many career paths in this business. If you go the civilian route, knock out your training as young as possible and be willing to move for the right jobs. This is a rough career to start after you already have a wife and kid.

(Disclaimer: I am just one of thousands of opionated pilots).

(Disclaimer #2: The author acknowledges the phrase, "opionated pilot" is redundant).

 

[El Chupacabra]

Go military and stay in 30 years. Avoid civilian aviation.

 

[psysicx]

Or go guard/reserves build your flight time and get on with an airline or corporate operator.Then when you retire you will have two checks instead of one.

 

[pilotyip]

College degree not required

Remember you do not need a college degree to succeed in the flying business, not required for Army pilots, not require fro civilian flying except about 5 airlines.

 

[semperfido]

Remember you do not need a college degree to succeed in business.

whatever you do...don't listen to this advise. you don't need to brush your teeth and take a shower either, but it sure benefits you when dealing with others. i would definitely get a degree and go with your gut on the civ vs mil option. both can be very rewarding.

 

[qmaster3]

Aviatior,

First off good luck to you. Make sure you marry into money, trust me on this one.

OK, I am in the Navy (enlisted), and am not a mil pilot. We could debate Military/CIV all day. I have never met a Navy pilot biaatching about his/her job (unless it's a non-flying one). If you don't feel like doing the full time mil thing. Look at the reserves Coast Guard, Navy, or Air Force. I can tell you that after you get the private the GI bill covers 60% of everything else, or if you go to Riddle they pay you 1100 a month for 3 yrs. I've heard some on this site say the GI bill doesn't cover CFI/CFII/MEI this is not true.

 

[Gearmunky]

I saw this as the most recent post on the page and wanted to add my .02

This is what I would have done, knowing what I know now. Go military for as long as you can flying whatever you can (preferably fixed wing) You never have to worry about benefits, retirement yada yada. If you get in fresh out of college at 22-23 years of age and stay in for 20-30 years, for all intensive purposes your still pretty young when you get out. I wouldn't expect to go for an airline, but get a corporate or frac job that's not age limited. You will never have to worry about finding a job that has benefits or a huge salary because you already have a descent retirement to live on. You won't be filthy rich, but your sort of have a "base salary" to start with. Then pick a job that most suits you, and you never have to worry about whether it pays benefits, 401k or whatever. Look for a job, and they're out there, that has a good schedule whereas you can still enjoy life, but still do what you love.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get in the military or the guard to fly and will always feel like I missed out. Do whatever makes you happy, but that's what I'd have done.
Good Luck

 

[XShipRider]

Civilian or Military?

As a 20+ year veteran I would caution you regarding the military route.

The military is clearly NOT for everyone. Think about the length of the
commitment (as mentioned by someone previously), what type of
flying you qualify for in the military (I'm thinking B student may not even
qualify for flight school depending on branch of service), the structure
of the military (very rigid), the deployments, and the very real possibility
you could get your #ss shot off!

College and civilian flight school may be the way to go.

Regardless, flying is inherently dangerous whether you decide either way.

As an added bonus, military flying often entails some moron with a
shoulder fired missile, anti-aircraft gun or assault rifle trying to 'assist' you in
bringing your aircraft to FL00... without the use of flaps, brakes, engines,
wings, landing gear... niceties like that.

 

[English]

whatever you do...don't listen to this advise. you don't need to brush your teeth and take a shower either, but it sure benefits you when dealing with others.

Wow, that's the best response I've read yet on the subject.

 

[pilotyip]

20 years in the mil is not a sure thing, particarily for pilots. Talk to any the Korean ear pilots riffed in mid -50's or the Vietnam era pilots who were riffed in mid -70's because Uncle Sam had too many pilots. The same thing happened again after Gulf I. In fact a few years ago Money magazine rated a military career as one of the most insecure.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Yeah its not easy.... but you miss every shot you don't take.

Go military and stay in as long as possible.

 

[qmaster3]

Yeah its not easy.... but you miss every shot you don't take.

Go military and stay in as long as possible.

YES


I'd have to say I'm happy to be military right now.

 

[rattler]

Here's my scoop. I went the civilian route. I often wished and dreamed I tried the military route. When I was in college the airlines were hiring like crazy and the military was cutting back. I decided that the civilian route would be best for my career. Well a few years latter I am still a FO at a regional while all the ROTC guys I went to school with are flying F15s/F16s/C5s/C130s etc...Looking back I think these guys will probably be in a better position to land the major airline job in the end.

I think the best way to cover all the bases is the ANG. I know many pilots who took this route, and they say it is the best kept secret in the military. Maybe, maybe not. Some of these same guys have recieved orders to deploy.

It's all a crap shoot, AirInc claimed pre 9/11 that 60% of all major airline pilots hired were civilian. I have also heard that Delta exclussively hires only military pilots. So who knows? I don't. The best advise I can give is do the best you can, and hope for the best.

 

[GVFlyer]

Yeah its not easy.... but you miss every shot you don't take.

Go military and stay in as long as possible.

Good advice. In the military you'll find the best flying, the closest group of friends and the highest sense of reward for what you' re doing. Additionally, the $4375.00 a month retired pay (O-5, 25 years) and lifetime free medical care that come as part of the package, are not bad benefits.

GV

 

[qmaster3]

BTW, Is retirement pay tax free?

 

[Grizz]

No it's not. Uncle Sam wants his cut of that too.

 

[pilotyip]

More Stuff

Retirement pay is tax-free in many states like Michigan, but as per above Uncle Sugar wants his cut. BTW you do not fly that much in the military, I see retried pilot’s resumes all the time; average after 20 years is about 4000 hours. Brakes down to about 200 hours per year. The flying you do is great! The guys you fly with become some of the best people you will ever meet. You will also, particularly in the USMC and USN have to take jobs that have nothing to do with you flying a airplane, Cat officer on big gray boat is one of them, and you are gone from home for nearly two years out of a 2.5 year assignment. Motivation has to come from a desire to serve, otherwise you might be disappointed.

 

[Purpledog]

Go Mil if you have the personality for it, ie, not self serving. Fly something gray and pointy and you'll have the time of your life, all over the world with 20 of your best drinking friends. Stay in for your commitment (or longer), than go into guard/reserves and finish your 20 years and you will have a guaranteed pension/medical when you hit 60, not to mention having fun and serving. I was going to stay 20 but I happened to get the call that I couldn't refuse and now I'm finishing in the reserves. As far as who has the advantage, you make your own conclusions, the recent class of 32 at FDX had 22 military in it. With the military they get a known product and you get great training and great networking opportunity. Airlines are different though and you won't know until its time to make that move so have fun now while you're young. I wish I could be a boot Lt and pull G's again.

My 2 cents.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Good advice. In the military you'll find the best flying, the closest group of friends and the highest sense of reward for what you' re doing. Additionally, the $4375.00 a month retired pay (O-5, 25 years) and lifetime free medical care that come as part of the package, are not bad benefits.

GV

I just wanted to highlight a few things GV just said. Being in a squadron is the best experience you will have in your life. Avoid too much Staff Duty...

There is no better life for a pilot.

And when you are to old to fly military your former squadron mates will make sure you get hired over everyone else applying at Delta and American or MNBA Bank or NJI.

 

[208starcheck]

You need a college degree to fly fix wing aircraft in the military. I think that should answer your question on which to do.

 

[FirstMate]

If you get into a flight program at PU, UND, or the likes, consider getting a minor in addition to your flight major. I know several folks who went that route and still graduated in 4 yrs.

 

[Chocks]

Check out a College ROTC scholarship. I did the NROTC thing. (Navy) A NROTC scholarship lets you go to basically whatever college you can get accepted to and pays 100% of tuition, books, fees plus gives you a monthly stipend. You are commissioned as an officer the day you graduate and start drawing pay.

You can major in pretty much anything you want (few exceptions) and can change majors of you wish. (Navy anyway)

Pay as a Navy Pilot was pretty good, and if I could go and wind back the clock I would have stayed in instead of getting out when I did to fly for United. (Furlough)

The people I flew/worked with in the Navy were great and will probably be closest friends for life.

You can't beat the flying you get to do in the Military...I still remember flying into the break at 425 knots...

Check into the NROTC scholarship...best decision I ever made. (And you get to go to a REAL school...with lots of girls and stuff...)

Fly Safe....Chocks

 

[pilotyip]

Not true about college degree and military fixed wing. I interviewed two pilots in the last month, fixed wing military, no college degree. Both Army, one flew the DHC-7 and other the C-12. One has been hired and other will be when he gets out.

 

[Chocks]

Okay...lets rephrase...to fly as a pilot in the Navy or Air Force you need a 4 year degree..

 

[El Chupacabra]

At times when short on recruits, the Navy institutes a NavCad program and Marines have had a similar program called the MARCAD program. This is for people without a 4 yr degree.

 

[Diesel]

Go civilian. Unless your going to be a lifer at the military you'll be way behind the 8 ball by the time you get out.

 

[tailhookah]

Don't listen to Diesel...... decide if you want the satisfaction of 1)serving your contry while touring the world slaying hot foreign chicks and having the best stories to tell with your mil buddies for the rest of your life. 2)getting the best training ever while getting paid well to do it. 3)if you're lucky to join the elite top percent: land on an aircraft carrier, at night while touring the world slaying hot foreign snapper and having the best stories to tell w/ your mil buddies for the rest of your life. 4)get out, join the reserves, have furlough protection (while guys like diesel are flipping burgers on their furlough) while you are touring the world......slaying hot foreign babes...... while still paying the mortgage. 5)fly some of the coolest planes to the coolest (and sometimes crappiest) places. 6)get out of the mil and get immediately hired by a major (if they are hiring) and jumping ahead of Diesel while he's pumping gear on a beech 1900 touring the NorthEast getting shot down by fat chicks...... you can always be a civilian pilot after you serve your country (while getting paid well to do it) but you can't decide at 30 or 40 to go tour the world nailing hot foreign babes and have the stories to tell chumps like Diesel while they pump gear for you Captain......

ps-get the degree OUTSIDE of avaition (unless it's aero engineering, not aviation management).

 

[satpak77]

should be clear

dude if you are college grad and meet the physical/medical mins, try for mil pilot

I mean, take a pick

CFI to build time to fly 402's with checks on board to build time to get that 1900 job to build time to get that airline job

OR

fly F-16s/KC-10s/C-17's/B-2's, protect the country, see the world, and get that airline job, with the best training in the world behind you?

I might add the military currently does have the following aircraft in their fleet

B737
B757
B747
KC-10/DC-10
G-III to G-5
LR-35
DC-9
B727 (ANG?)

---> Guess how hard it is for an ex-mil driver of above aircraft, to get an airline interview? The same can be said for:

C-17
C-5
C-141 (all gone?)

I mean, be honest, both ACME Flight School C-152 Program Manager and the head General over UPT both tell you "you are hired"

in the military, you literally can fly everything from a helicopter to a single engine turboprop to a 747 to the Space Shuttle....

honestly, WHERE are you gonna go

 

[tailhookah]

IF the long commitment of active duty scares you then canvass an airguard unit and get one of their OCS/flight school slots. Go, become an officer, go to flight school, spend 2 years or so on active duty while you become an aircraft commander and then be a guard bum on the weekends and have Diesel pump gear for you on that 1900 until you get on, well earlier than he ever did/will w/ a major..... trust me, except for a few RARE exceptions, you will be ahead of the "8" ball when you get out of the mil......