Civilian vs. Military

[buttercup]

IF the long commitment of active duty scares you then canvass an airguard unit and get one of their OCS/flight school slots. Go, become an officer, go to flight school, spend 2 years or so on active duty while you become an aircraft commander and then be a guard bum on the weekends and have Diesel pump gear for you on that 1900 until you get on, well earlier than he ever did/will w/ a major..... trust me, except for a few RARE exceptions, you will be ahead of the "8" ball when you get out of the mil......

Diesel is a good guy stop ragging on him.. He is still in his twenties and has upwards of 3000 hrs of turbine PIC.. He is a classy guy .. If he wanted to be working at a Major he could have been hired at one already, he just likes fractional flying. I know, that is bad decision making on his part but I'm trying to work on him there..

 

[SeaSpray]

Diesel is a good guy stop ragging on him.. He is still in his twenties and has upwards of 3000 hrs of turbine PIC.. He is a classy guy .. If he wanted to be working at a Major he could have been hired at one already, he just likes fractional flying. I know, that is bad decision making on his part but I'm trying to work on him there..

He's a dope if he thinks being a military pilot puts you behind in getting ANY aviation job.

 

[aviator4512]

Yea the if I were going with my feelings right now, I wouldn't go military, only because it seems extremely rigorous. The ideal job for me would be in the corporate, fractional, or 135 areas, flying a gulfstream. This is not an easy feat, but is it still possible without going military? Also, after flying for a number of year I would love to open an FBO somewhere, so thats why i was thinking a business degree. I love corporate jets, and right now, I would die to fly one, even though most say its not as nice as it looks...

 

[HoursHore]

Not true about college degree and military fixed wing. I interviewed two pilots in the last month, fixed wing military, no college degree. Both Army, one flew the DHC-7 and other the C-12. One has been hired and other will be when he gets out.

Did you get mooned by a bunch of Frat dudes? You seem to have a vendetta against having a college degree and flying.

My take: Professionals in all walks of life must have degrees. How you want to be viewed is up to you. Do you need one to fly? absolutely not. ( except for Fed EX. and they are one of three majors hiring right now.)

And that statement is misleading. You do need a degree to become an commisioned officer, and you must be an officer in the other 3 services to fly (from a seat with controls). So if you want to fly a Jet, you must have a degree.

(This is not Army bashing. Just stating facts. And I am sure that there are exceptions and I know about Navcad as well, so don't bother pointing those out to me.)

 

[semperfido]

bottom line is this- it is dumb to NOT get a 4 yr degree if it is within your means and capability. If you are not one of these people, then NO you don't need one. There are plenty of successful people without them, but there are MORE successful people that have them.

and one last thing---go Marines, you will NEVER regret it.

 

[psysicx]

The Guard/Reserve route is the way to go.Its more competitive to get on then AD.Where else can you go with a private and come flying C-5,C-17 or fighters.Then you bum around flying to cool desinations upgrade to AC and get turbine pic.Then apply to the majors or corporate outfits.You get to fly all around the world at 300 hrs while your friends are instructing or flying into Fat or Butte.

 

[El Chupacabra]

and one last thing---go Marines, you will NEVER regret it.

But he says I wouldn't go military, only because it seems extremely rigorous.
​

That leaves out the Marines.

 

[tailhookah]

Remember..... all Marines wear Navy Wings of Gold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where else can you go in with ZERO flight time and get to land on carriers, tour the world, shag foreign hotties..... you know the rest. BTW: I don't hear any of the civilian guys coming up w/ any retort to serving your country, making good coin, shagging hotties, flying cool jets, seeing the world, getting incredible experience and the respect of most people.... except for you liberals who will vote for Billary in 08.... we don't want softies trying to get into our fine services.... if it's too tough then fly crappy equipment and empty the lavs while the military guys come out of the service and get hired in front of you with less hours..... it's the truth.

 

[netjetwife]

Aviator4512, there is a lot of good advice on this thread. You are definitely going to have to weigh the pros and cons of each route. Aside from the flying aspects, ask yourself questions about your lifestyle preferences: Do you like to move a lot? I know that some of the civilian pilots move a lot early on in their careers....BUT...it is by choice. In the military you go when and where you are told. I loved it (my husband flew T38s and F16s) but others sited it as a reason for getting out. The opportunity to live overseas (we were stationed in Egypt and Germany twice) is one not available to many people. We were very happy and would do it all again. The retirement is a nice secure foundation but you will need a 2nd career. Another bonus of being in a military flying squadron is the close-knit community that is extended to the entire family. It isn't just a job for the pilot--it's a way of life for the whole family.

With a lot of hard work (and some luck) you will be able to have a rewarding career in either field. Just make sure you start off with a college education to fall back on no matter which route you ultimately choose. Best of luck to you!
Netjetwife

 

[Diesel]

Seeing the world= Seeing some far off spec of land while your living on a ship.

 

[learflyer]

Freakin' computer dumped my long post. Basically I was saying while a college degree is a no-brainer when it comes to wether we should get one or not(I'm currently working on mine), we are not guaranteed that "fall back on" job should we lose our medical or just quit flying.

Let's say you have a degree in microbiology. You got that degree 25 years ago. All of a sudden you lose your medical. Who the heck is going to hire someone in that field with that lack of recent experience?

Just a thought.

 

[Purpledog]

Seeing the world= Seeing some far off spec of land while your living on a ship.

Hmmm. Seeing as how I've been to almost every place on "Wild On" and spent 6 months touring Europe on the Govt's dime, I just wouldn't agree.

Go civilian. Unless your going to be a lifer at the military you'll be way behind the 8 ball by the time you get out.

Oh yeah I seem to remember my interviewer at FDX saying to me I was way behind the 8 ball, just before they hired me with <2000hrs total at 32. Incidently the civilian RJ guy with 5000+ (and an attitude) busted the interview, and didn't get called back.
Diesel you are a fool but everyone reading this has probably already come to that conclusion.

 

[Diesel]

FDX is what about 80+ percent military? That must have been a tough one.

God now I know the kick J3 gets.

Let's discuss the merits of who's a better pilot. That should take the thread up a notch.

 

[gunfyter]

Let's say you have a degree in microbiology. You got that degree 25 years ago. All of a sudden you lose your medical. Who the heck is going to hire someone in that field with that lack of recent experience?

Just a thought.

That is exactly the position I am in except the degree is Optics.

I kept all my notes and Textbooks... and I have estimated it will take me 18 months to review all of mathematics, physics, chemistry, and engineering on my 7 days off. 12 additional months for another BS degree in either physics or nuclear engineering.

If you did it once you can do it again. My aunt is an MD, stopped practicing Medicine for 20 years to raise her children. Studied and recertified in Radiology and Nuclear Medicine.

 

[pilotyip]

Be nice

Hoursguy, I see you are in the narrow-minded camp, if someone does not agree with you, immediately personally attack him or her. As posted many times before I have nothing against a college degree. I have a couple myself. But the narrow politically correct "college only" of this board needs a counter. This will allow those who do not see college as an immediate goal other options. I see too many pilots I consider successful without college degrees, it is a viable career option.

 

[Purpledog]

Let's discuss the merits of who's a better pilot. That should take the thread up a notch.

Only a fool would generalize all pilots of a various backgrounds into one skill level. If the shoe fits, open your trap. As far as hiring goes (at FDX or any other major), with the military guys, it's a safe investment for employers because they know exactly the type of training and flying each has recieved. I come from both backgrounds so I don't have a prejustice for either.
D-bag I am done responding to your ignorant statements because I don't believe in bullying on the 'challenged'.

 

[Diesel]

Man 21 posts and you haven't figured out how this board works?

Military guys are a safe investment for employers because they know how much money it's going to take to train them to understand civilian flying. Of course the Civilian has allready been operating under the FAR's so long and worked with ATC that no more civilian training is required. Just send them off to aircraft training. No learning how to read a map or what airspace means.

does D-bag stand for dime bag?

 

[GVFlyer]

Hoursguy, I see you are in the narrow-minded camp, if someone does not agree with you, immediately personally attack him or her. As posted many times before I have nothing against a college degree. I have a couple myself. But the narrow politically correct "college only" of this board needs a counter. This will allow those who do not see college as an immediate goal other options. I see too many pilots I consider successful without college degrees, it is a viable career option.

What you're saying may be true, but failing to attain a four-year degree closes many doors in aviation. I've never flown for an organization that didn't require a Baccalaureate.

GV

 

[SeaSpray]

Man 21 posts and you haven't figured out how this board works?

Military guys are a safe investment for employers because they know how much money it's going to take to train them to understand civilian flying. Of course the Civilian has allready been operating under the FAR's so long and worked with ATC that no more civilian training is required. Just send them off to aircraft training. No learning how to read a map or what airspace means.

Are you really a pilot? If you were you'd hear all the Reach, AerEvac, Pat and Sam callsigns flying Boeings, Douglas, Gulfstreams, Lears, Beechjets, and KingAirs in the same system you were. Even fighter guys fly under the FARs as written into military regulation when not in some Warning Area or MOA. Get a grip, dude.

 

[Frac Daddy]

Freakin' computer dumped my long post. Basically I was saying while a college degree is a no-brainer when it comes to wether we should get one or not(I'm currently working on mine), we are not guaranteed that "fall back on" job should we lose our medical or just quit flying.

Let's say you have a degree in microbiology. You got that degree 25 years ago. All of a sudden you lose your medical. Who the heck is going to hire someone in that field with that lack of recent experience?

Just a thought.

Name something that is guaranteed. (Other than death and taxes). You'll notice the pilots I used as examples in my post have kept current in their fall-back jobs.

 

[GVFlyer]

Are you really a pilot? If you were you'd hear all the Reach, AerEvac, Pat and Sam callsigns flying Boeings, Douglas, Gulfstreams, Lears, Beechjets, and KingAirs in the same system you were. Even fighter guys fly under the FARs as written into military regulation when not in some Warning Area or MOA. Get a grip, dude.

My favorite is "OPEC", the callsign of the KC-10 tankers out of McGuire Air Force Base.

GV






~

 

[Spooky 1]

GVFlyer,

Were you in the 89th? Great bunch of folks over there. We occasionally cross paths with them during some Boeing venues and they have been very helpful and willing to share some of their Boeing operational knowledge with us.

 

[pilotyip]

Everyone has an opinion

GVflyer you should continue to stand for the option you believe is correct, but only 5 of the 177 companies interviewing in the latest Air Inc hiring report make the BS/BA degree a show stopper. I am just standing for the little guy who would happy with a job at the other 172 companies.

 

[GVFlyer]

GVFlyer,

Were you in the 89th? Great bunch of folks over there. We occasionally cross paths with them during some Boeing venues and they have been very helpful and willing to share some of their Boeing operational knowledge with us.

Yes, the 89th's a great organization. Lot of Boeing knowledge in the organizational culture - prior to exchanging the Boeing 707-320B's for B-757s, Maintenance was locally manufacturing non-available parts for the whole 707 line-up.


GV

 

[NJAFracPilot]

GVflyer you should continue to stand for the option you believe is correct, but only 5 of the 177 companies interviewing in the latest Air Inc hiring report make the BS/BA degree a show stopper. I am just standing for the little guy who would happy with a job at the other 172 companies.

If Kit Darby said it, it can't be true... I think if you don't get a degree you're setting yourself up to fail.

 

[pilotyip]

NJA define failure?

 

[bluepost]

Failure IMO is hiding in a corner because you got bitch slapped. Columbus didn't settle, our immigrants didn't settle, our armed forces do not settle, the "Lets Roll" team did not settle.


I haven't been around and even I know that you don't get squat playing it safe. Even with all the post 9-11 crap, 90% of NJ guys that were here in the 90's would still be better off if they would of bailed at their first opportunity (me included).

So failure in my opinion is closely tied to justification, and YIP pilot, it sure sounds like that is something you DO have plenty of.

If you are happy, I am happy for you...really...but taking any crapball that comes rolling down hill, and saying it is good enough is failure of human potential, and violates the core values that has made this country succeed.

If everyone in this country lived by your playbook we would look a lot like many of the 3rd world countries out there....happy to be alive and not being raped and tortured (for today anyway), because I saw my friend get raped and tortured.

 

[igneousy2]

If I had to do it all again when I was 18...

Work on your Bachelors degree...it's another checkbox that could mean they pick someone else in the future.

While you're working on your degree...work on as many civilian ratings as you can get. If you work hard you should be able to get your CFI by your junior year and start instructing and building time. Civilian ratings will help you stand above other military pilot candidates later to.

When you graduate college, get a job at a regional airline or fractional if they'll take you (not likely at this point). As soon as you get a job at a regional, shop for ANG pilot slots...that's right, it doesn't matter if you leave one day after regional airline ground school begins, your airline MUST give you time off to serve in the Guard even though you didn't have the position when you started the company. Go anywhere in the country, the first 2 years are the same no matter what and since you are a regional airline pilot you'll be able to jumpseat (fly for free) to wherever your guard assignment is when the time comes.

If it all works out, you will have a seniority number at a regional, and you will be off to 2 years of fligth training with the military.

At the conclusion of your active duty training you will return to your regional job as if you never left. In other words, if pilots that were hired with you are now (2 years later) eligible for captain...so will you. You will at least be making 3rd year FO pay which allows you to bypass the whole "first year pay sucks" problem

One weekend a month and two weeks a year you will now be able to go play F-16 pilot and supplement your RJ-FO pay.
When the industry tanks (like now) you can ask to be activated in your unit and the airline MUST let you go until your activation is complete; this allows you to sit out any displacements, furloughs, whatever unpleasant things may be happening at your airline. Again you can return later as though you never left.

The best part is you will belong to the only group in aviation that gets interviews at majors easier than miltary pilots...and that's military pilots with extensive civilian scheduled 121 experience.

Good luck, and I hope you'll be nice to me when you're my Captain at a major.

Later

 

[RJP]

Iggy,

That's about the most positive non-anti-military statement I've ever heard you make.

I was expecting something very much the opposite.

 

[pilotyip]

Iggy has never been there, you will not maintain currency in any F-16, C-130, etc. on one weekend a month. There tons of extra drills you are expected to use, figure on a minimum of 4-5 days per month and 30 days avtive duty per year