Civilian Tankers

[TGR]

Its a great idea to augment the stateside training and exercise commitments! The tanker force is spread really thin right now and the receivers are always asking for another boom in the air. (There is usually plenty of gas airborne, just not enough booms to go around). The mission is pretty easy, mainly a big coordination and communication exercise. I cant speak for the omega guys, but in the ANG and active forces we do the vanilla flying, but also fly formation (up to 6 or more tankers), tactical arrivals and departures and NVG stuff. As for you Navy guys, if you need a tanker for support, try calling an Air National Guard unit (no TACC interference). I know us Jersey guys would love to hang out at the beach for a few days.

Km

 

[Bjammin]

Formation Flying? If the tanker is acting as lead and doing all the other stuff (which they'd be doing with or without the fighters) - the fighter pilots the ones flying formation.

I'm sorry, but when I'm flying lead I consider that formation flying as well. Sometimes just sucking wingtip is the easy part. Flying a good lead and being smooth and predictable for the guys on the wing can be alot harder.

My 2 lincolns

 

[Fox-Tree]

I'm sorry, but when I'm flying lead I consider that formation flying as well. Sometimes just sucking wingtip is the easy part. Flying a good lead and being smooth and predictable for the guys on the wing can be alot harder.

My 2 lincolns

Good point. I wish you were flying the last tanker I refueled off. However, flying lead as another fighter and flying it as a tanker ain't the same thing. They usually have the A/P on anyway.

Sometimes we start wondering if the guys up front are even looking outside. We'll be refueling in the soup, in and out of a layer and can see it's clear 1K' above. We end up having to ask them to climb. Yeah, I know.... Wahhhhhh.

 

[Deuce130]

What happens when the tankers go on strike or have a work slowdown? The one thing the military has over civilians is that you can order people to do things. Might not have that feature when dealing with civilian pilots.

 

[Bjammin]

That's a good point, but guys that would sign up to do it would ususally be the type that would, hopefully, always put the mission first.

Fox - I was thinking of exactly that sort of thing.

 

[Deuce130]

That's a good point, but guys that would sign up to do it would ususally be the type that would, hopefully, always put the mission first.

Fox - I was thinking of exactly that sort of thing.

They probably would be .... at first. A few years on the job always changes attitudes.

 

[TGR]

Good point. I wish you were flying the last tanker I refueled off. However, flying lead as another fighter and flying it as a tanker ain't the same thing. They usually have the A/P on anyway.

Sometimes we start wondering if the guys up front are even looking outside. We'll be refueling in the soup, in and out of a layer and can see it's clear 1K' above. We end up having to ask them to climb. Yeah, I know.... Wahhhhhh.

I agree to a point. When I was in C-5s I thought the same thing about the tankers. Unfortunately, its not that simple. You guys have been operating above the AR track and know were the tops are. We often never get above the track, and if we tried to climb that extra 1000 ft to get in the clear every time we "thought" it was only a 1000 ft to the tops we might never get the AR done. Many times there are other variables, another AR right behind you, airspace issues, another tanker above that is coming in, etc. A lot of times its just not worth it for the 5k a fighter is going to get. If its a heavy that is taking on 140k, thats a different story. Hope it helps explain a little. We do try give you guys the best conditions if its possable.

BTW, I was always curious, How come you guys have a radar, wingman, AWACS, etc pointing out the tanker, but still can not find the tanker. It seems to me a fighter should be able to find the tanker without any assistance. "Sometimes we start wondering if you guys are even looking outside."

Sorry, that was a shot, but you can see how easy it is to critique the other guy with this stuff.

Just my 2c.

 

[Bjammin]

I can't speak for the Hornet or any other pointy nose, but we had air to air TCN and AWACS snaps only. We could tell if you were coming or going by the rate of DME change and them make the turn when your were abeam.

One clear day I saw the taker at 40NM. I think my eyes have gone way downhill since then.

 

[Be 23]

Who is going to refuel all of those new Marine V-22's? The KC-130 fleet isn't big enough to keep all of the pilots current for training, even if they didn't have a war (or two) on their schedule. I think there will be some opportunities for civilian tankers as the unprobed H-46's get replaced with probed V-22's.

 

[fishalaska]

Great Idea, but...

The mil guy can be ordered to risk his/her life while outsourcing might result in no fuel in a hot combat zone. Probably would not happen but the possibility is there. It might not even be the pilots--maybe management would not be willing to risk their airplanes or some other reason beyond the normal.

My 2 cents,
Fish