CitationShares Upgrade timeframe

[7777]

As usual, thanks for the insight XTW. I do appreciate it.

 

[dingo222]

I just caught a musky scent of ..... riddle.......

 

[Sparse]

deleted

 

[JSky26]

I just caught a musky scent of ..... riddle.......

If that was referring to me...no, I don't go to Riddle...thank god

 

[fullsail]

Remember Tom Simkowski's interview with the consultants in the movie Office Space? If you decide to log your right seat time at CS as PIC when you are NOT signing for the aircraft that's probably how your next interview will go.

 

[SDCFI]

But...what about SWA?

Q. What is the definition of Pilot in Command (PIC) time? A. Southwest Airlines defines "Pilot in Command" as the Pilot responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight. This definition is taken from PART I of the FAR. Southwest Airlines further allows logging of PIC as follows: For an aircraft requiring a type rating: If both pilots are type rated, the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC. If only one pilot is type rated only that pilot may log PIC, regardless of seat position. For aircraft not requiring a type rating: Only the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC.For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot In Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged, as "Other Time" will not be considered. Look, a CS F/O CAN log PIC when sole manipulator. In SWA's case they will accept it too, as long as it was from the left seat. Just because XYZ airline doesn't accept it doesn't mean you can't do it, just be sure you separate it so that there is no confusion. Why do it at all then? Well at my company they recognize the part 61 definition. If I log my legs as PIC, when I upgrade (same type) I won't be "high mins" even as a brand new Captain. Small potatoes maybe, but one less thing to worry about on the line. If you decide to do contract work or apply for a corporate job it may mean the difference between qualifying for a Captain position or not. If the insurance is good with it, why the hell not? I have 2 PIC columns in my logbook, one for true PIC and one for 61 PIC. The true PIC goes on job apps, the true PIC + 61 PIC are for my company and anyone else who accepts it. Easy enough.

 

[flagshipper]

Of course another minor issue is at CS you can only fly left seat with a standards captain and on empty legs so in my 1.6 years here I have maybe 8 flights from the left seat for a whopping 12 hours.

 

[JSky26]

Q. What is the definition of Pilot in Command (PIC) time? A. Southwest Airlines defines "Pilot in Command" as the Pilot responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight. This definition is taken from PART I of the FAR. Southwest Airlines further allows logging of PIC as follows: For an aircraft requiring a type rating: If both pilots are type rated, the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC. If only one pilot is type rated only that pilot may log PIC, regardless of seat position. For aircraft not requiring a type rating: Only the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC.For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot In Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged, as "Other Time" will not be considered. Look, a CS F/O CAN log PIC when sole manipulator. In SWA's case they will accept it too, as long as it was from the left seat. Just because XYZ airline doesn't accept it doesn't mean you can't do it, just be sure you separate it so that there is no confusion. Why do it at all then? Well at my company they recognize the part 61 definition. If I log my legs as PIC, when I upgrade (same type) I won't be "high mins" even as a brand new Captain. Small potatoes maybe, but one less thing to worry about on the line. If you decide to do contract work or apply for a corporate job it may mean the difference between qualifying for a Captain position or not. If the insurance is good with it, why the hell not? I have 2 PIC columns in my logbook, one for true PIC and one for 61 PIC. The true PIC goes on job apps, the true PIC + 61 PIC are for my company and anyone else who accepts it. Easy enough.

Hmm interesting....

Are you sure SWA accepts that sort of time? I went on their website and they only accept PIC/Aircraft Commander time, unless I was looking in the wrong place.

http://www.southwest.com/careers/pilots.html

I've been guilty of double logging while working on my instrument and then commercial a few years ago. Instructors told me I could log PIC so I did, being too naive to think anything of it. I like the idea of having 2 PIC columns. I may go back in the logbooks and just do that.

 

[XTW]

Hmm interesting....

Are you sure SWA accepts that sort of time? I went on their website and they only accept PIC/Aircraft Commander time, unless I was looking in the wrong place.http://www.southwest.com/careers/pilots.html

You know, there is the quote above where you are obviously looking to SWA and their PIC requirements, which would point out that you are looking in that direction in the future.

Then, there is the quote below, which you claim to not want anything to do with the airlines and profess to want to get a job in corporate.


"Most of my buddies are going off to the regionals but the airlines right now at least do not appeal to me at all. My goal is to stay corporate if I can, whether it be a frac or a part 91 gig."



You need to keep your story straight to keep from alienating potential employers. Frac, and more so Corporate, can be very close knit and you can step on your d*ck very easily. These people have been burned in the past when they have hired airline types during airline down times, and then lost them when them immediately when the airline recalled them. Many of them will not even think of hiring anyone with an inkling to go airline in the future. It is referred to as "airline stink" in some circles. Actually, the "airline stink" refers to former airline types, not future "airliners", but it could be interpreted as that as well.

This whole string has been about how you can get PIC logged without actually being designated PIC. If all you care about is the PIC column in your logbook, then that points to trying to shortcut the system to get an airline interview. If you take the corporate job and show that you can perform appropriately, then you will be upgraded in due time.

My instinct, is that you only are looking to an airline. Too bad, because there are many different jobs in this profession, many of them very rewarding.


X

 

[BengalsFan]

Imho

Hell no, don't go to the regionals (based on what you have stated).

Take this with a grain of salt, as I am military only and have no experience in the civilian world, but common sense tells me that if I am making good money, full benefits, with a good QOL, working with good peeps, and I'm only 22... why go to the regionals? And log what is legal, but stop worrying so much about the future and enjoy what opportunities you have today! The networking alone will be more valuable than any ammount of hours you'd obtain at the regionals.

Good luck bro

Ok, thanks!

Maybe I could get some insight for you guys.

I'm a 22 year old CFI graduating college this May. I've got a great opportunity lined up to fly for a Part 91 corporate flight department. They fly a PC-12, CJ1 and soon to be CJ3. Within 6 months of the job, if all goes well I'd get sent to school on the airplanes to get typed (obviously just a CE-525 type) The pay is well above average (NBAA #s), full bennies, great guys to work with, growing company, very little pop-ups, very few RONs. It seems like a great opportunity for a guy my age.

Most of my buddies are going off to the regionals but the airlines right now at least do not appeal to me at all. My goal is to stay corporate if I can, whether it be a frac or a part 91 gig.

As you can see from my previous questions that I have a bit of a dilemma. Even if I get typed on the airplane, it still seems it wouldn't be the "right" thing to do to log PIC... For now it seems like not the right move in terms of career development but at the same time I feel like its a great opportunity to get some experience. What do you guys think? Should I ditch the job and run to a regional in hopes of building fast TPIC? I'm thinking no but I would like some feedback.

Thanks!