CitationAir How Much Longer

[BentOver]

There will be furloughs to scare everyone, count on it.

Happened at Options; will happen here as well. Classic Ford and Harrasment scare tactics.

But could the real intent here be to make everyone BELIEVE they are on a sinking ship? And therefore, why bother paying dues and as a result, weaken your leadership's ability to hire the help they need to fight against a company the size of Textron?

Then, a White Horse in Management rides in to the save the day from the false threats they created, but guys, we need to focus on efficiency to keep from further furloughs. We need to work together again. We need our direct relationship back.

Then when the Union support is weakest (because everyone wants to make Management happy so they can keep their jobs), Ford and Harrasment launches their Union Decertification campaign.

Shouldn't be too hard to Win; what did you guys vote in the Union by just over 50%??? Options guys were so pissed off it was 67% in favor, and yet Ford and Harrasment still attempted to divide and concur. They may have an easier time doing so with the narrow victory at Citation Air.

You didn't think by voting in a Union, Management would just roll over and play dead did you? Perhaps these plans are real. But I find the timing very interesting. This is right up the alley of the Mental Warfare games Ford and Harrasment plays.

Good luck to all those affected. Even if the plans are BS, there will certainly be some furloughed/terminated just to strike fear into the hearts of the pilot group.

Count on it.

Good points.... I think someone on here said CS was telling owners as well? That would be a huge bluff to put out there if they were also informing owners of their "plan".

 

[FlyingFred1224]

Good points.... I think someone on here said CS was telling owners as well? That would be a huge bluff to put out there if they were also informing owners of their "plan".

They sent out emails the same day to the owners...so they are aware. And, yes, too big a bluff...especially since quite a few will take their money back and go somewhere else...

 

[Freedom]

Really sorry to hear that guys...

True.

If the Owners start to make redemptions, its time to look elsewhere.

It would be really sad to see Citation Air go away.

I remember when NetJets got their big contract back in 2005, and Citation Shares reacted by matching the base Salaries, though certainly not the work rules.

Perhaps the One Way Charter pay as you go model is starting to take hold in the minds of the Owners.

Really sad. I will always remember the relationships with Fractional Owners. Much more like you were a trusted family employee, than the turn and burn relationships in the Charter biz.

The only thing close to that has to be a quality Part 91 Owner to work for. And we all know how unstable that can be. Company hits rough financial waters, first to go is the jet.

Good Luck guys.

Hopefully the forced age related retirements will have a positive impact on our end of the industry as well.

 

[UAL-GSO]

Good points.... I think someone on here said CS was telling owners as well? That would be a huge bluff to put out there if they were also informing owners of their "plan".

I've had three owners come up in flight to question us about it in the last two days alone. To say they are "less than pleased" is an understatement.

 

[BentOver]

I've had three owners come up in flight to question us about it in the last two days alone. To say they are "less than pleased" is an understatement.

Yeah, as much I distrussed management's in general, I don't think they base every business decision/announcement on pilots and their Unions.... Meaning I don't think every announcement they make is an attempted Union bust...

If they are truly telling owners of their plan, then I'd say it has more legs than not..

Hopefully another poster is right and CS's charter/card market is really showing growth enough to where the fractional side is no longer a needed entity..

 

[pilotyip]

Please explain how the union had anything to do with this. There wasn't even a CBA negotiated yet. Are you infering the mere threat of a contract caused this implosion? Blame may make you feel better, but it won't help those about to hit the streets. For those folks, you have my best wishes for a smooth and rapid recovery. Been there, done that, just like most in this "troublesome" industry.

Well if you don't have a CBA, you won't have to worry about the IBT taking dues out of your severence pay. Been there; done that

 

[NJAowner]

Hopefully another poster is right and CS's charter/card market is really showing growth enough to where the fractional side is no longer a needed entity..

What make that work, especially in the new XOJ model is that you can price o match demand, and you can refuse (either actually or by a prohibitive price) money losing flights. XOJ is trying to discordance flights under 3 hours, and really discourage flights under 2 hours. I don't know the numbers, but many, many of the frac flights, especially in the smaller fleets are 2 hours or less. These are money losing flights when taking into consideration repositioning. In the frac model it is "your plane" and you fly when and where you want. IN the new, improved XOJ style charter, you are changed less for certain flights and more for others. SO if I want to leave out of EWR I will be changed more than a flight from TEB. IN a frac model they are the same. XOJ can take into account the difference in positioning if needed, and that FBO and fuel fees are more are certain airports. If you want to leave fro them you pay more. And they do not want the .5 hours flight from MMU to Saranac NY (ADK), which the frac must serve. If it were a frac model, they need to do a repo leg from TEB to MMU, fly MMU to ADK for .5 hr and then reposition ADK to BED?

So in my opinion you will see more "smart charter". Owner will downsize their frac share in both hours and plane size for the short flights and use smart charter for the longer (and more profitable legs).

 

[G4dude]

Yeah, as much I distrussed management's in general, I don't think they base every business decision/announcement on pilots and their Unions.... Meaning I don't think every announcement they make is an attempted Union bust...

If they are truly telling owners of their plan, then I'd say it has more legs than not..

Hopefully another poster is right and CS's charter/card market is really showing growth enough to where the fractional side is no longer a needed entity..

Yeah, I think the union busted the company, not the other way around. The threat of having to deal with a union caused Cessna to say bye bye.

 

[Xcorporate]

That's absurd.

 

[imacdog]

That's absurd.

You'll find that absurd statements are pretty much par for the course for G4.

 

[blueridge71]

The rumors of mass layoffs are greatly exaggerated... or at least premature. No one has been furloughed yet. Time will tell.

 

[squonk]

Really sad. I will always remember the relationships with Fractional Owners. Much more like you were a trusted family employee, than the turn and burn relationships in the Charter biz.-Freedom

Yep. I remember this also. We had a core group of owners that I saw frequently. They knew me by name and it really did have a family feel. That has been eroded over the last few years. I think the reasons why are complex but it doesn't change the fact that that feeling is slipping away.

 

[bailout]

The rumors of mass layoffs are greatly exaggerated... or at least premature. No one has been furloughed yet. Time will tell.

You really need to take your blinders off.

 

[johnsonrod]

Didn't CS just recall the last of it's furloughed pilots a few months ago? And now the potential for furloughs going forward with this potential Netjets tie-up? Yeah, this is exhausting.

I shoulda gone to dental school........

 

[imacdog]

Hire 'till you fire doesn't just apply to the airlines anymore.