Citation X pay???

[Gulfstream 200]

I just heard a story about a (retired/LOA) UAL guy who took a job flying a Challenger 300 in the Rockies for $75k/yr. Not good but not to bad. Then the other shoe drops. The second guy is in the $55k range, they MUST share a room on the road, meals are $10, $10, and $20, use it or lose it and you can't apply one to the other. Guys like this should be taken out back and blanketed 'till all movement stops!!!!! Then some one should get a hold a "Mr. Rich" and slap him upside the head just for good measure. Personally I wish I could've had the opportunity to interview for the job just so I could have the satisfaction of laughing my A$$ off right to his face.

reading these gets depressing.

I especially like the "share a room" part. Thats real special.

I never blame Mr Rich. He is a smart mo-fo. He's making thousands a year off of stupid a$$ pilots. Good for him.

Anyone who accepts sharing a room with another pilot deserves....well, to share a room with another pilot. I cant even imagine this fine perk.

Maybe it goes along with using the brakes on the landing rollout...ya know, sharing rooms saves the boss money and then he will keep the airplane longer.

LOSERS!

 

[Lead Sled]

I couldn't agree more with this.

While this is often true (and it's probably always true in the case of the real low-ballers, especially the low-ball 135 operators), it certainly is not always true. I have worked for a couple of operators who pay at the low end of the range and yet had no hesitation about spending money on maintenance.

For that matter, I have seen the opposite as well, where an operation pays reasonably well and yet skimps on maintenance. That is usually due to the chief pilot.

I understand what you're saying, but remember that I said that compensation was one indicator, not the only indicator.

When it comes to Part 91 operators (not 91/135 or straight 135) I've found that most of us are afraid to ask for the salary that we could command. As I mentioned earlier, I've flown corporate for just over 25 years. During that period I have held 4 separate jobs - the longest job was 15 years, the shortest job was 1 year and I've held my current job for nearly 3 years. With each position I negotiated a significantly higher compensation package than what was originally offered. It's not all that hard, but you've definately got to do your homework before going into an interview.

'Sled

 

[Diesel]

HMR i wasn't posting a dig on you I was just curious. I've been there done that but decided to go the more stable route. I've got a job offer but i'm just sitting here thinking about it.

G200 pay can be replaced by QOL.
I got offered a very good job for an owner in the same plane. World travel yada yada yada It's a lot more than i make now. Can still live at home... so whats the catch..

Well here is a little info about me. I have a very sick parent that i take long stretches of time off for. I probably won't go back to work for another month or two. NJ has been very good with this. To me this QOL replaces pay very easily.

So i have a job offer that would pay me ALOT more than nj pays me now. But that higher pay would require me to work more and spend more time apart from my parents. I can't justify it.

So yes QOL of life can be measured in money.

 

[SCT]

Diesel,

I agree with your post. Everybody has there own situation and circumstances to make job decisions. As long as you're not a "bottom feeder", pay is not everything. I had a job offer in the east coast corridor for 18K more then I am currently making. But after looking at all my options, it wasn't the best choice for me. Top pay is not everything....(as long as your not being screwed).

Would somebody please post the NBAA X survey!!!!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Diesel, you have to re-read what I said..Im not talking about a few bucks, Im talking about the guys who are pathetic. Those working for 50% what they should and saying "heck Im home a lot"

And please....even at the "7 and 7" thing you guys run, even the busiest flight departments rarely do 14 days+ a month.

I know no corporate pilots who are run as hard as Netjets pilots.


PS - can you really work a long stretch then get months in a row off? sounds like thats what you do? I'd like to take the entire summer off each year myself...

 

[Diesel]

I take the summer off using my vacation time. That's pretty easy.

I'm taking time off without pay during the winter months to help out with the family.

I know a couple of flight departments that work harder than me and i know a couple of that don't.

The difference is you have to actually show up to work. Taking FMLA would be a serious hardship on them. Even doing ANG stuff would be hard on them. ie look at all the guys at fedex.

Do i wishi i had taken the other job. Yes and no. I would work ALOT less but also be gone a lot more. (not sure if that makes sense)

also a side note- I've had many jobs to fly gulfstreams. I could have written my own path working for a buddy of mine. Problem is right now with the family stuff going on i wouldn't make a very good employee right now. I just couldn't do that to him.

NJ has been very good to me with my family problems. Like i said it's a dilema.

 

[G100driver]

I just heard a story about a (retired/LOA) UAL guy who took a job flying a Challenger 300 in the Rockies for $75k/yr. Not good but not to bad. Then the other shoe drops. The second guy is in the $55k range, they MUST share a room on the road, meals are $10, $10, and $20, use it or lose it and you can't apply one to the other. Guys like this should be taken out back and blanketed 'till all movement stops!!!!! Then some one should get a hold a "Mr. Rich" and slap him upside the head just for good measure. Personally I wish I could've had the opportunity to interview for the job just so I could have the satisfaction of laughing my A$$ off right to his face.

That guy is a f'n UAL SCAB. (Got a good friend at APC) What do you expect? Him to ask for a industry standard wage?

If I was a super zillionare I would try and hire SCAB's. I know that I could offer them a lower than standard wage with lousy QOL and he would accept it. If he suddenly gets religion, out the door he goes and go hire another SCAB.

This guy has no spine ... he has proven it with his past actions.

 

[LegacyDriver]

LegacyDriver- I thought you flew corporate? You do 135 also? Can we just clarify something once and for all: If you fly 99 PT91 trips and 1 PT135 trip YOU FLY CHARTER! Do you take a PT91 or PT135 checkride at recurrent? If it's PT135, YOU FLY CHARTER! The jobs I was referencing are pure PT91 ops.

Glad your daughter gets to bounce off dad's knee. That's cute. You always say your pay sucks then come back with some rediculous excuse for why it's OK- "Well if it was a full-time job..." (HUH?!). Or, it's better than "slaving myself away for 100K" (double-HUH?!). What are you talking about? I fly a smaller jet make ALOT more money and work ALOT less than you do. Give us a break.

So if I fly ONE 135 leg out of 100 I am not Corporate?

I'm underpaid but I try to be philosophical about it. It's not always about the money...

 

[LegacyDriver]

Your boss is a lucky guy, Legacydriver.

You are a true professional at talking yourself out of much worth.

Not too many corp pilots I know SLAVE for 100K, most make more than that and have that same great QOL you have/seek.

QOL is no substitute for fair pay, stop thinking that way for christ sakes..

Well if I could do this job for 100K somewhere else I definitely would but I'm not exactly the most marketable dude on the planet with a *LEGACY* type and nothing else...especially when you consider the fact that EVERY SINGLE CAPTAIN at Mesa, CHQ, Eagle, TSA, and COEX has one (that's 1000+ jets worth of Captains). I don't believe in buying a type either so I'm treading water for the moment.

I must be nuts, but it seems to me that employers dictate what they will pay you, not the other way around... That's always been my experience.

But QOL is worth more than anyone will ever pay you for it. I think that is axiomatic.

 

[Lead Sled]

So if I fly ONE 135 leg out of 100 I am not Corporate?

It's like being pregnant - you either are or you're not.

'Sled

 

[murfdawg998]

I just heard a story about a (retired/LOA) UAL guy who took a job flying a Challenger 300 in the Rockies for $75k/yr. Not good but not to bad. Then the other shoe drops. The second guy is in the $55k range, they MUST share a room on the road, meals are $10, $10, and $20, use it or lose it and you can't apply one to the other. Guys like this should be taken out back and blanketed 'till all movement stops!!!!! Then some one should get a hold a "Mr. Rich" and slap him upside the head just for good measure. Personally I wish I could've had the opportunity to interview for the job just so I could have the satisfaction of laughing my A$$ off right to his face.[/quote/]

Rice,

that's some pretty disgusting stuff...gotta love those airline guys. You'd think since he was UAL that he'd be trying to recoup some of that money the company took from him. I know you would indeed stand behind your comments....hope things are good.

Murf

 

[LegacyDriver]

It's like being pregnant - you either are or you're not.

'Sled

I obviously have mixed feelings about the whole thing. I think pilots in general are woefully underpaid. Not because what we do is hard (I contend that 90% of the people in the world could do our job on a purely intellectual level). Rather, we are underpaid because there are a million different ways to lose your career after you've invested a small fortune getting there.

2 - Checkrides/year
1 - Line Check/year
2 - Medicals/year
Drug Testing
Ad Nauseum

Then you add to it that any little mistake you do at your job (altitude bust, mistaken clearance, etc.) can cause you to lose it...

That's why pilots are underpaid.

In my case...however...I don't feel that the salary I make is that great, but it is in most respects worth the tradeoff for my free time. If I doubled my salary but had less time off I do not feel it would be worth the trade.

That's all I am saying.

 

[Diesel]

Legacy-

You do fly international. I seem to remember you doing that.

Try and get one of the 500 hour wonders from the commuters across the pond. Or better yet outside of their little "comfort zone" of airport with ILS to airport with ILS.

Food for thought.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Definitely food for thought.

It's frustrating in many ways. I wonder how I will pay for my children to do all the stuff I got to do as a kid. Seems like salaries for all occupations are going down down down... Very depressing.