Citation II type

[skypine69]

What is a typical cost of a Cit-II?

thanx

 

[BoilerUP]

The Citation II uses the CE-500 type...good for the Citation I (500/501), II (550/551), S/II, Bravo, V, Ultra, Encore and Encore+.

The 14 day CE500 initial at Simcom MCO was about $13,500 last year; the 7 day initial with checkride in the airplane at Simcom SDL was about $15,300.

FSI runs north of $20K, and I'm not sure about Simuflite.

 

[CelticCitation]

I would bet you could get a Cit II type (c500) at FSI for the low teens if you go to a center with an older type sim, such as an older Cit. II. Technically, you can type in an Encore+ and do the diffenrences, and it might be pretty cool, but the II will be a lot different, and will cost you a lot more. The sim schools charge more for the higher demand, newer sims, and less for ratty, worn out sims.

You can also look at some of the outfits that do not use sims, just train in older 501s. They advertise in the $8-9000 range, but most insurance companies will not accept that kind of training. It would get you the type, but probably not much else.

Before the economy went in the toilet, it was blaspheme to even suggest paying for your own type. Now, I would say good luck, as there are a lot of unemployed typed guys, or employed tyed guys with lots of time on their hands. That may explain the long post.

 

[BoilerUP]

FSI TOL hasn't come down in their pricing for Citation II recurrent...they wanted north of 11k when I called earlier this fall!

 

[CelticCitation]

Pricing is confidential, of course, but I think you could negotiate that a little better. You might try different centers also (LGB, SAT). In this economy, there is a lot more wiggle room than there has been in the last several years.

 

[7KCAB]

Just got a quote today from SIMCOM for 500-series recurrent - $4900 for 4 days and 4 hours in sim or $5800 for 4 days and 6 hours in sim. Not sure about initial these days.

 

[DrProc]

Most training companies, FSI, Simuflite, Simcom have different rates for different clients. So just about everyone in a particular class could be paying a different amount. In my Hawker initial, one client paid over 30 grand while another was 18...

 

[skypine69]

thanks for the info...i have no intention of paying for it myself, just curious what they run. amazing that a guppy type costs 6K but a citation is more than 10K.

 

[siucavflight]

The Citation II uses the CE-500 type...good for the Citation I (500/501), II (550/551), S/II, Bravo, V, Ultra, Encore and Encore+.

The 14 day CE500 initial at Simcom MCO was about $13,500 last year; the 7 day initial with checkride in the airplane at Simcom SDL was about $15,300.

FSI runs north of $20K, and I'm not sure about Simuflite.

Simcom is an absolute joke, that place is a sorry excuse for a professional flight school.

 

[BoilerUP]

Simcom is an absolute joke, that place is a sorry excuse for a professional flight school.

What experiences have you had with their jet programs to make you say that?

 

[siucavflight]

What experiences have you had with their jet programs to make you say that?

Citation 2 training. Instructors were good, but the simulator was horrible, the organization was an absolute joke, the books that they have were so poorly written that it was at times hard to follow along with numerous spelling and gramitical errors, and their customer service was non-existent. A guy that was in FlightSafety with me on the Gulfstream had the exact same horrible experience with their Beechjet program. Have you been there? What did you think?

 

[BoilerUP]

Citation 2 training. Instructors were good, but the simulator was horrible, the organization was an absolute joke, the books that they have were so poorly written that it was at times hard to follow along with numerous spelling and gramitical errors, and their customer service was non-existent. A guy that was in FlightSafety with me on the Gulfstream had the exact same horrible experience with their Beechjet program. Have you been there? What did you think?

I did my CE-550 Initial there about a year ago.

I thought the quality of training and the materials were just fine. My instructor had never flown the airplane (many who teach bizjets at any of the sim centers haven't flown the plane they teach) and while it was unfortunate he didn't have any real-world tips, he was a very good instructor.

I will say that flying the checkride profile 5 days straight ensures a very stress-free type ride but creates boredom and lessens the skills gained and knowledge learned during "training". I also couldn't believe they didn't have ASE or TEB in the simulator - while I understand the simulator limitations I think they do clients a disservice by working exclusively out of JFK and not even even once flying the TEB departure or doing an ASE approach. Also, the Cessna-written QRH-style abnormal checklist Simcom provides its Citation II clients is awful. Absolutely, positively, terribly awful.

Basically, a similar experience to FlightSafety; 30 minutes of war stories, 15 minutes of teaching, and 15 minutes of coffee break to wrap up each hour.

 

[7KCAB]

Not sure what everyone's issue is with SIMCOM. Maybe it's because you don't get the cool FSI bagtags or blue aircraft books. You can get a bad instructor ANYWHERE - FSI, SIMCOM, airlines, etc. It's the overall experience that matters, and mine has been great with both SIMCOM and FSI.

My experience with SIMCOM was great. CE-500 initial - had 2 good ground instructors that had no experience in the aircraft (JUST LIKE I'VE HAD AT FSI). Great instructors - one was a retired EAL guy and one was a Kingair guy. Had a GREAT sim instructor with many hours in the aircraft (and still flew them regularly) and was very helpful.

The sim wasn't any better or worse than FSI's 500 sim in Atlanta, although FSI's has been upgraded recently for daytime and has a Garmin GPS. Neither one is a super-high-dollar level 4 sim, so I wouldn't expect it to be like a G-550 sim.

All of my instructors were very professional and courteous (as have been all of mine at FSI). Maybe I've just been fortunate enough to have avoided having a "bad" instructor at either one.

I've said it several times here, but in my experience there really isn't much difference between the two programs when compared apples-to-apples.

 

[Headwind]

Citation 2 training. Instructors were good, but the simulator was horrible, the organization was an absolute joke, the books that they have were so poorly written that it was at times hard to follow along with numerous spelling and gramitical errors, and their customer service was non-existent. A guy that was in FlightSafety with me on the Gulfstream had the exact same horrible experience with their Beechjet program. Have you been there? What did you think?

I have been there several times and have not seen this. Sure you're not confused? Your Gulfstream friend may also be confused as SimCom does not offer a Beechjet program.

 

[BoilerUP]

Your Gulfstream friend may also be confused as SimCom does not offer a Beechjet program.

Actually, yes they do have a Beechjet program; they've had the MU30/BE40 program in MCO for well over a year now. Its not at the main learning center off Lee Vista though; it is "across town" or so I was told.

 

[Headwind]

Well sorry about that. I may be confused myself or just having a senior moment.
I was there in May did not see or hear anything about the Beechjet.

 

[siucavflight]

I have been there several times and have not seen this. Sure you're not confused? Your Gulfstream friend may also be confused as SimCom does not offer a Beechjet program.

I am sure, he went there for his BeechJet type.