CitaionShares Upgrade

[pilotpat]

Holy Crap! A sensible post?? I'm gonna have to go to sleep and see if I just dreamed this...

 

[Sparse]

How is the upgrade and QOL at CitationShares, I have to decide, and I would like some real world answers. Thanks.

Now that everybody has vented, the answer that you sought. They are telling folks 2 years. When I was hired they told me 12-15 months. With very few exceptions, they have kept their promise. I upgraded right at a year. It is true that we are losing some people. We lose people every year. I don't know if it is higher now or not. The airlines are hiring and recalling. All fractionals are going to lose people as a result. From my experiance, if they tell you two years, count on two years. If they need you sooner they will probably upgrade you sooner. I can tell you that they have kept to their promise on the time frame they told folks. I honestly don't think they will promise you something to get you to take the job.

 

[ALSF 2]

This was the only company that I have ever worked at that, even after delivery schedules were slowed a little, they still upgraded guys/gals in the original time frame told because they said that they would. They kept their word even if it made them a little heavy on Captains. Take it or leave it, they keep their word.

Cheers!

 

[Bravo F/O]

Company claimed upgrade 2 years. With people leaving in droves this may go down who knows. Dont buy the 7 on 7 off. 8 on 6 off is VERY common. Go home days frequently 20 hours...they do not consider travel into the 14 hour day like NJ does. You are exhausted after flying for 7 days and then putting in a day like this. It is only a matter of time before some guy kills himself on the way home. The drive home from the airport is probably the most dangerous drive you will ever make!

With no seniority it is a big time good ole boy network not performance based as they try to make you beleive.

This and a multitude of other issues like vacation( 5 years to get 2 weeks...first year 2 weeks at NJ) makes CS ripe for union representation. It will be messy and unpleasent while it is going on but they have brought it on themselves by being out of touch with the line pilots.

The pilot pay scale after 5 years service does not even come close to inflation. They reward longevity with essentially a yearly pay cut as a result.

I would suggest reading the NJ contract which is on the internet. At least you will know what CS is giving you in comparison to the market.

There may be an open door policy but whether the ears and minds inside that door are open is in question. And with a "fire at will" HR policy(on the first paragraph in your welcome to CS letter), most guys are nervous about talking to management anyway for fear of reprisals which are a reality.

Hope this helps.


The above post is not far from the mark....except for the union comments.

I still don't understand the positives nor the negatives of a union since I have never been in one.

Hoping company reads the NJA contract and makes adjustments accordingly.

As far as upgrading "as promised" goes.....let me know how ya feel in 4-8 yrs.

All in all not a bad company to work for ....just somethings could be better.

Hope this helps ya.

 

[FoxJet]

A Union will Help Everyone

I will keep this short, I hate reading long posts.

A Union will help everyone... it'll help the employee by not allowing the company to take advantage of them. (20 hour days)
It'll help the customer by enhancing safety.
It'll help the fractional industry as a whole, through Pilot Unity we can accomplish more on QOL issues.

Someone who disagrees with this please tell me how I am wrong.

 

[Tarzan]

I will keep this short, I hate reading long posts.

A Union will help everyone... it'll help the employee by not allowing the company to take advantage of them. (20 hour days)
It'll help the customer by enhancing safety.
It'll help the fractional industry as a whole, through Pilot Unity we can accomplish more on QOL issues.

Someone who disagrees with this please tell me how I am wrong.

I'll disagree some then. Enhancing safety? To some degree yeah but the companies lose huge amounts of capital when the making a smoking hole in the ground. Thye benefit by not making them. Unions can only do some much here and they have to have enough politicians in their pockets to affect it.

Pilot unity? You have to be kidding me. Look at the region end of this business. These kids are cutting each others throats to get to the left seat to make a buck. The fractionals are not immune from this. Am I going to look oout for myself first? Darn right! But I am also not going to sell out my future either but many do because they can't see beyond what is within their grasp. Unions work like this because many can't see beyond what is within immediate sight. And that, is a problem when it comes to unions.

 

[johnsonrod]

In rank order, what are the CS aircraft a newhire will "most likely" get hired into (understanding it could be any of the aircraft) considering future growth? What are recent newhires getting hired into? Are newhires ever given a choice?

 

[Sparse]

In rank order, what are the CS aircraft a newhire will "most likely" get hired into (understanding it could be any of the aircraft) considering future growth? What are recent newhires getting hired into? Are newhires ever given a choice?

Which aircraft you are hired into is hard to predict. I don't know of anyone being offered a choice. Right now the growth is in the CJ3, Sovereign, and XL. XL growth is the least of those three. The CJ1 fleet is going away rapidly so I doubt they will hire for that and the Bravo fleet is planned for reduction. The good news about all of this is that any of the growth aircraft will be a good place to be.

 

[xpdriver]

A strong union really fixed Comair right up.

Comair didn't have a strong union,They had ALPA..there is a difference

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

It is what it is...I worked Regionals and CS....CS was definitely better. And for the Unions at a regional level....save what little dues you pay because the real voice with ALPA is the majors. Remember...1.98% of your gross income are your dues...and the last I heard, the majors average more in pay.

 

[cfd130]

XP,

In case you forgot CMR struck the company for 3 months, and won and industry leading contract.

 

[blueridge71]

Company claimed upgrade 2 years. With people leaving in droves this may go down who knows.

I was told 18 months last year. I think that will most likely be pretty close.

Dont buy the 7 on 7 off. 8 on 6 off is VERY common.

That has not been my experience. Unless I volunteer for OT, I'm usually home on the last day.

And don't forget to mention that if it does stretch to an 8 day tour, you are well compensated.

Go home days frequently 20 hours...they do not consider travel into the 14 hour day like NJ does. You are exhausted after flying for 7 days and then putting in a day like this.

Unfortunately, some times the go home days are long. This was addressed at a recent round table meeting and they say that they are working on getting it better.

The flip side is that if you are too fatigued to drive home, they will get you a hotel.

There are some things that need fixing at CS, but it isn't as bad as you paint it. I've heard that a lot of things will be revisited when we become profitable, probably this year.

As far as payscales, second year captain pay here is equal to six or seven captain pay at most regionals. Pay is definitely better than regionals, especially when you consider OT and per diem. It doesn't quite match up to the majors, but then again, this is not a major airline.

 

[blueridge71]

Someone who disagrees with this please tell me how I am wrong.

You might want to talk to some FLOPS guys.

 

[blueridge71]

In rank order, what are the CS aircraft a newhire will "most likely" get hired into (understanding it could be any of the aircraft) considering future growth? What are recent newhires getting hired into? Are newhires ever given a choice?

I do know some new hires who got a choice, but not all classes. It just depends on their need at the time.

 

[dime line]

Company claimed upgrade 2 years. With people leaving in droves this may go down who knows. Dont buy the 7 on 7 off. 8 on 6 off is VERY common. Go home days frequently 20 hours...they do not consider travel into the 14 hour day like NJ does. You are exhausted after flying for 7 days and then putting in a day like this. It is only a matter of time before some guy kills himself on the way home. The drive home from the airport is probably the most dangerous drive you will ever make!

With no seniority it is a big time good ole boy network not performance based as they try to make you beleive.

This and a multitude of other issues like vacation( 5 years to get 2 weeks...first year 2 weeks at NJ) makes CS ripe for union representation. It will be messy and unpleasent while it is going on but they have brought it on themselves by being out of touch with the line pilots.

The pilot pay scale after 5 years service does not even come close to inflation. They reward longevity with essentially a yearly pay cut as a result.

I would suggest reading the NJ contract which is on the internet. At least you will know what CS is giving you in comparison to the market.

There may be an open door policy but whether the ears and minds inside that door are open is in question. And with a "fire at will" HR policy(on the first paragraph in your welcome to CS letter), most guys are nervous about talking to management anyway for fear of reprisals which are a reality.

Hope this helps.


The above post is not far from the mark....except for the union comments.

I still don't understand the positives nor the negatives of a union since I have never been in one.

Hoping company reads the NJA contract and makes adjustments accordingly.

As far as upgrading "as promised" goes.....let me know how ya feel in 4-8 yrs.

All in all not a bad company to work for ....just somethings could be better.

Hope this helps ya.

Wow I thought that you were talking about FLOPS, everything you said is just about verbatim over here at FLOPS, I mean everything.


Said by blue ridge71;
"This was addressed at a recent round table meeting and they say that they are working on getting it better."

This sentence is exactly why we voted in a union, "there always working on making it better", problem is they never did.

Said by blue ridge71;
"I've heard that a lot of things will be revisited when we become profitable, probably this year."

This is kinda opposite what you said above, (wow, been there heard that) and really how do you, or anybody at CS really know your not profitable? If NJ is making that kind of profit, you can bet FLOPS/CS has to be making something, anything. But then again I really have no clue what were making.

But then again why should it be any pilots responsibility to subsidize the wealthy's travels