Cirrus vs. Columbia

[mcjohn]

??? Oh no not the SIC thing. Not SIC in a SR-22! Oh no this thread has been tainted!

I am that guy! It's important 'cause I gotta know. I'll tell you one thing about that flight.....The owner/operator of the SR22 was waaaaaaay behind his own plane. He obviously only flew once a month or something (doctor BTW). He wanted to show that plane off so bad and didn't know what the f--k he was doing so I was not impressed with it at all! I was scared sh!tless wanting to get my feet back on the ground. List of things I had keep reminding him of:
1. Take the flaps out after going missed (I waited to see if he's catch it but next thing I know he's pushing 160 knots at 50% flaps)
2. Get the right freq's in
3. Quit trying to get the GPS linked up with the auto pilot cause he kept knocking us off freq so we were getting yelled at by ATC
4. Convince him it was a GOOD thing to hand fly the approaches when all he cared about was showing me how great his SR22 would fly the approaches auto with the GPS
5. Had to talk him through flying a hand approach that would not kill us. Doctor was putting on an airshow trying to chase the loc. and glide slope. (He actually didn't have the concept of returning to a good reference heading once he CHASED the loc. needle to center!)

Aaaaaanyway....I told him to land 'cause I was late for something (B.S. just to get my feet on the ground) and was stressed, kinda pissed, and could care less about how cool his plane was....

But ya know.....the point here is that I have no problem logging that as PIC b/c I felt that I was the ONLY one keeping us alive!
....but I do have the regs to abide by so whatever...It's already in my logbook as PIC but I'll change if I have to once I'm sure.

Thanks for the input so far! Need more......sh!t I just realized I'm accidently hijacking this thread. Sorry 'bout that.

Oh yeah...have to edit this in.....He told me "If I have a heart attack, stroke or anything that makes me unable to fly pull this red handle over your head. It'll takes both arms b/c it takes 22 lbs to move it."
I looked at him and said "you hired a CFI as a safety pilot. I'd much rather just land the plane and get you to a hospital.."

 

[JimNtexas]

Oh yeah...have to edit this in.....He told me "If I have a heart attack, stroke or anything that makes me unable to fly pull this red handle over your head. It'll takes both arms b/c it takes 22 lbs to move it."
I looked at him and said "you hired a CFI as a safety pilot. I'd much rather just land the plane and get you to a hospital.."

I guess that's why Cirrus insurance is double that of a Mooney and triple that of my Cardinal.

 

[FlyingSkip]

My Point Exactly!!!

J-Mac,

The general point of your post, about a pilot flying an airplane that was obviously more capable than he was, and the remark about the CAPS is Ed Zachary what i was talking about 2 or 3 or 4 pages back, as well as on a couple other threads! I am a big fan of the Cirrus, but I am definitely NOT a big fan of pilots flying it who shouldn't be in the air period! I don't know how many folks on here subscribe to "Over the Airways" (www.rjma.com) but the article in today's issue was all about what us/we pilots can do to make GA safer! I hate to get on a soapbox, but (FN FAL will love this!) blaming planes for accidents or dangerous flying is no different than blaming guns for killing people---it's a non-starter! Guns don't kill people, people kill people....and planes don't kill people, crappy pilots kill people. Relying on systems to fly beyond your means is ridiculous, dangerous and gves plenty of ammunition to others to ridicule/fear/vilify what we do.

OK, off the soap box and I feel better. Sorry you had such a crappy experience for your first time in a Cirrus---it would be nice if we could talk about rates of climb out of AVL and how much nicer the controls are once you're used to them over a traditional yoke...instead of how Joe Blow tried to kill you! Congratulations on making it through unscathed, and I hope that the next time you get in one you can enjoy the ride!

 

[Alin10123]

Which is better? SR-22 or Columbia 400?

Has anyone flown both to make a comparison?

The columbia seems to be a bit faster. But i think it also burns a lot more fuel. The question is... which one costs less per mile average? What about average total costs per hour when you include maintenance, oil and fuel? Are those turbo chargers much more when it comes to maintenance?

 

[FlyingSkip]

Alright, I'm going to bump this by asking a question.

I keep hearing people talk about how "cheezy" it is the Cirrus doesn't have a steerable front gear. When I first looked at the POH they made it a big point as well that the nose wheel wasn't steerable. I'm not claiming to be Mr. Ace of the Base, but I've flown in a few different tricycle gear airplanes, as well as a lot more taildraggers, and I guess I'm missing something. Maybe somebody can help me here... How different is the Cirrus than anything else and what should I expect that I'm not seeing? I don't taxi the Cirrus any different than I taxiied a Lance or a 172 or a T-34---I push the rudder as well as the brake until I get what I want and then I start to let it out before it gets ahead of me...if that seems to be the case, I start going the other way on the other side. How else does anyone taxi? I mean, I'll be the first to admit that I go for effect over nicety and maybe I've always been ham-handed (or footed) in anything I've flown, but I just don't see the difference?!

Flame on if it's something obvious I'm missing. Otherwise, instruct the ignorant or agree with me that airplanes all taxi pretty much the same way. Whatever, and thanks.

 

[DaveJ]

Just like the Grumman American models

The Cirrus is like the AA1s and AA5s. You steer with the brakes during taxi. Once you get on the takeoff roll and get some airspeed, you can use the rudders, but during taxi, the rudder won't do squat.

 

[mcjohn]

I steer my RC taildragger model airplane on the ground with rudder. It has no brakes. Shots of throttle is all it takes

* Don't try this with a real plane that has inop. brakes!

 

[FlyingSkip]

OK, DaveJ, with all due respect that didn't answer my question one bit. I fly the Cirrus on a daily basis and know what it feels like to taxi it, and I disagree that I get no rudder effectiveness---but then again I flew freight and fly pax now so I'm taxiing a BIT faster than you're teaching your students to do. Straightaway I usually taxi at least 20 minimum, more like 30 when I can get away with it, so maybe that's the difference. Maybe I'm getting that rudder effectiveness that everyone else is looking for. In any case, I personally don't see any difference but maybe I've answered my own question---and Dave helped so forget the part at the beginning where I said you didn't help! And like I said, maybe I've just always used more brake than others do so that doesn't feel different either. Any other bright ideas anyone?

 

[mcjohn]

Any other bright ideas anyone?

Hi flyinskip....
Yeah, you're a taildragger pilot so you have that subtle rudder thing down. Small movements well in advance of aircraft movement....ya know? The ability to anticipate. Probably makes you less aware of how much you really are doing with your feet.

 

[Alin10123]

OK, DaveJ, with all due respect that didn't answer my question one bit. I fly the Cirrus on a daily basis and know what it feels like to taxi it, and I disagree that I get no rudder effectiveness---but then again I flew freight and fly pax now so I'm taxiing a BIT faster than you're teaching your students to do. Straightaway I usually taxi at least 20 minimum, more like 30 when I can get away with it, so maybe that's the difference. Maybe I'm getting that rudder effectiveness that everyone else is looking for. In any case, I personally don't see any difference but maybe I've answered my own question---and Dave helped so forget the part at the beginning where I said you didn't help! And like I said, maybe I've just always used more brake than others do so that doesn't feel different either. Any other bright ideas anyone?

20-30 knot taxi??? that's pretty darn fast! The aircraft i fly would have a hell of a time trying to stop if i had to stop it right away from that speed.