Cincy Enquirer: Comair Wants to Cut Pay

[FurloughedAgain]

FlyComairJets said, "Tomorrow's meeting will illustrate just how willing our pilot group is to sell out each other, their fellow pilots, and the whole industry."

Boy I sure hope you're kidding.

See you at the meeting.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ComrCapt said, "Maybe they'll give them to Chataqua?.....Naaah, why share the revenue if you can have it all."

Just wanted to comment on this particular sentence. Chautauqua is a very dangerous competitor and it is important that everyone understand how fee-per-departure works and why it is such a formidable competitor for flying.

Good post! Glad some folks realize this. I looked at their numbers during Wexford's proposed IPO of CHQ and the margins are slim, very slim. They do not have the operational infastructure in place to maintain these margins at these prices. With the extra expense of operating the CRJ, over the E145, and Comair's infastructure (Comair is a real airline in comparison) I would be that CHQ makes a lot of sense from a profitability standpoint.

Then there are also the advantages of liquidity. DAL can acquire the use of airplanes from CHQ, without putting them on DAL's list of liabilities.

 

[MedFlyer]

CHQ is very dangerous to CMR....a much bigger threat than SKYW or ACA.

Look at where DL send the RJ's...you can tell who the lowest cost carrier really is. CHQ gets the MCO operation which is by in large DL's lowest yield flying. Comair stays heavily focused on CVG and LGA....where DL's yields are much stronger.

Comair's being kept on routes where there's minimal competition...particularly from low-fare carriers...not a lot of low-fare competition flying CVG-ERI or LGA-PWM. But as low-fare carriers keep invading new markets, DL will have to find a lower cost way to compete. If Comair can't provide that, DL will find someone who will.

By the way, do Comair pilots have any furlough protection??

 

[DDpaysoff]

Quote by med flyer:

""Look at where DL send the RJ's...you can tell who the lowest cost carrier really is. CHQ gets the MCO operation which is by in large DL's lowest yield flying. Comair stays heavily focused on CVG and LGA....where DL's yields are much stronger.

Comair's being kept on routes where there's minimal competition...particularly from low-fare carriers...not a lot of low-fare competition flying CVG-ERI or LGA-PWM. But as low-fare carriers keep invading new markets, DL will have to find a lower cost way to compete. If Comair can't provide that, DL will find someone who will.""


MED:

Or like BOS-DCA, LGA-DCA or head to head w/ airtran and US air on the east coast. Maybe, the reason there is not a lot of competion on routes like CVG-MCO, CVG-JAX is becasue Delta can compete w/ a lower cost structure and add frequency by using Comair RJ's. Sure I know the casms are higher than a 717, but it works both ways, when revenues are weak the bleeding is minimal. I have to disagree w/ you 100%. I don't see much competion at all in MCO-RSW, or CMH-TPA, or for that matter DFW-TUL. Delta either can not compete i.e. DFW-TUL or is the only carrier in the market i.e. CMH-TPA. Chautaqua's porpuse is to maintain market presence in in low-yield markets. If you look at their route structure you will see that. If Comair wasn't profitable there is no way DAL managment would have doubled their size in the last few years (while losing hundreds of millions of dollars. Keep in mind the ability to finance a/c the last couple of years has something to do w/ Chautaqua being here in the first place. They do their thing we do ours, there really is no comparison right now.

 

[MedFlyer]

MED:

Or like BOS-DCA, LGA-DCA or head to head w/ airtran and US air on the east coast. Maybe, the reason there is not a lot of competion on routes like CVG-MCO, CVG-JAX is becasue Delta can compete w/ a lower cost structure and add frequency by using Comair RJ's. Sure I know the casms are higher than a 717, but it works both ways, when revenues are weak the bleeding is minimal. I have to disagree w/ you 100%. I don't see much competion at all in MCO-RSW, or CMH-TPA, or for that matter DFW-TUL. Delta either can not compete i.e. DFW-TUL or is the only carrier in the market i.e. CMH-TPA. Chautaqua's porpuse is to maintain market presence in in low-yield markets. If you look at their route structure you will see that. If Comair wasn't profitable there is no way DAL managment would have doubled their size in the last few years (while losing hundreds of millions of dollars. Keep in mind the ability to finance a/c the last couple of years has something to do w/ Chautaqua being here in the first place. They do their thing we do ours, there really is no comparison right now.

I don't necessarily see where we are disagreeing. You're right that CHQ was brought in to "maintain market presence in low yield markets." Some of those routes were held by Comair and some were held by mainline DL or Delta Express (RIP). Either way, CHQ was brought in as a replacement because they have the right costs, righ size equipment and took the financing burden off DL.

I'm not saying CMR isn't profitable. Historically, CMR has been profitable but its just that, history. If yields continue to slide and low-fare carriers continue to invade new markets, CMR's profitability will be in jeopardy unless they can lower their costs. If not, DL will replace CMR with someone cheaper...whether that is CHQ, ASA, SKYW, DL mainline EMB 190's or some other carrier (read JO's comments about building a relationship between Mesa and DL).

What happens to CMR if WN decides to set up shop in CVG? Things would get ugly quick.

I'm not quite sure why you say DL has no competition on routes like CMH-TPA or DFW-TUL? WN flies CMH-TPA nonstop and AA flies DFW-TUL and WN flies DAL-TUL. In both cases, yields are low and DL can't fill a mainline plane, so DL brings in its lowest cost option...CHQ.

MCO-RSW has no competition but there's not much traffic anyway. CHQ won that route because they have the right size equipment...ERJ 135.

 

[sleepy]

In many of our markets ASA goes head to head with Airtran (ATL-GPT, ATL-PHF, ATL-TOL, and ATL-CAK come to mind). Airtran is tough LCC competition. If it was more cost effective, wouldn't DAL put Chit on those routes? Why isn't Chit doing all DCI flying? There is nothing to stop DAL from giving you all of our aircraft. I'm sure you guys would be glad to get them all. Right?

 

[captainv]

Medflyer,

>By the way, do Comair pilots have any furlough protection??


yes, to an extent. We have a no-furlough clause in the contract, but it only covers the pilots that were on property when the contract was signed. Anyone hired since then (quite a few of us, maybe 1/3 of the current list?) is not covered.

>What happens to CMR if WN decides to set up shop in CVG? Things would get ugly quick.

how so? i wouldn't think so, unless they can match the number of routes we have out of CVG. it's well known that more than 80% of pax through CVG are going somewhere else. it's a hub, not a destination. we've already got Eagle, Mesaba, Allegheny, even CHQ (for USAirways) going through CVG. and the people in CVG either ride them or drive to DAY, LEX, SDF, or CMH for cheaper fares on DAL/CMR.

 

[surplus1]

Well, now that we've had our "meeting" and the nice speech from Woerth, are you all ready to take the concessions?

I thought the "expectations" of what we might get in return were no less than amazing. Considering that Delta took a 680 million dollar hit in the strike, for less, how do we expect to "buy" the MEC's christmas tree with 8 million?

David Copperfield himself could not match the two "lecturers" at that meeting.

 

[DDpaysoff]

We'll see if DAL comes to the table. We are only getting promises w/o them at the table. If they are serious about Nov. 1, they must know the answer is going to be no. I like the direction our MEC is taking, but it is going to take a lot of time to get all the parties together CMR/ASA, and get DAL to come sit at the table and listen to our proposal.

 

[jarhead]

Hutzpah at it's best

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/10/11/biz_comair11.html

 

[DDpaysoff]

Score one for the team. Nice to finally see some numbers. Let's see what LEO says in CC.

 

[General Lee]

That is interesting. Butrell has a point, though. You've got plenty of competition from the other DCI carriers who want more of the pie. Butrell is wondering if Skywest pilots will take 50 seat pay for planes up to 99 seats, why won't you? Also, I don't understand this paragraph:


"In a memo to employees last Friday, Comair president Randy Rademacher said that the airline was hoping to secure new 70-seat jets that the company had planned on for next year. It also wants to get additional jets and routes. "


I am pretty sure 57 is the limit on the 70 seaters until Dalpa renegotiates, and if they won't give us an extension on the contract and other things Dalpa wants---it might be awhile.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Gen,
What you have to understand is this. We don't give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** where he puts those planes. We will not play the whipsaw game with him, period. That is all it is. We are expected to pay for the planes? I don't think so.

 

[DDpaysoff]

Until CMR/ASA take all future DCI flying, a paycut is not likely. Not with this group.

 

[Wacopilot]

Common

General Lee,

Do you really think that your scope will prevent Uncle Leo from growing his 70 seat fleet???? Common, you can't be that dumb....Scope, as it relates to growth is about as valuable as furlough protection... Look where that got you. If Leo wants 70/90 seaters, he will buy them and deal with DALPA in court. It has happened before. I'm not trying to be disrespectful but those are the facts.