Chq Or Psa ?????????

[back]

Given the choice, which one ????????

 

[hellas]

Im a crew member with CHQ and just happen to be sitting here in PIT with a Capt. from PSA and we are LOL at the multitude of sarcastic answers we can write and the best and most harmless we could come up with is : " Go become a Doctor"

 

[back]

Do you know what funny about that ?? Moast doctors will tell you to become a pilot ..........funny how that works

 

[upndsky]

You're not kidding, Back.

My wife works in an ER and one of the doctors there keeps telling her he wished he'd become an airline pilot. He said he'd be making more money!!!

 

[Lumber Yak]

Go to PSA

My suggestion: go to PSA, get some time on the "dork" - the Dornier 328 TP (an awesome aircraft with unbelievable EFIS) and then transition to the CRJ or ERJ. That way you get some great EFIS experience from two types of advanced aircraft.

Only problem is the upgrade time may be awhile... I have heard great things about PSA's management, though. I don't know much about CHQ - I suppose flying an ERJ out of Orlando wouldn't be too bad either...


Good luck with your decision.

 

[328dude]

Lumber. Actually the upgrade time at PSA has dropped considerably. When I started two years ago, it was two and a half plus years for the left seat. I start upgrade next week and it will be two years plus 5 days. The upgrade at the end of Ocotber is filled with guys under two years.

I aslo heard that there is upgrade plans for Novemeber and December which has never been done before because of the holidays. Somethings up. Also, two new hires classes are scheduled for Novemeber and December as well. Again, this is a first.

 

[hellas]

PSA is a great bunch of people and so is CHQ, but I can tell you that CHQ pays much better than PSA and we are hiring straight into the RJ with only about 2 year upgrade. CHQ has 52 RJ's and will have 22 more within 12 months with 30 options. We also have 4 code shares in which you can participate in AA, AW, DL an USairways. Especially in CMH where you have all 4 at one base.. We are also getting a new RJ contract in which the Capt. is looking at approx. 60/hr. So from the economics and having the ability to participate in many codeshares it makes sense to look at CHQ. Our route structure is also great.. and from what I have observed and this is not to upset PSA personell but is seems that CHQ has a better corporate culture and relationship with managment. Just my opinion...

 

[328dude]

Hellas, nice post, however. Regarding your comment about relathionships with managment, that my be, but the guys and gals I talk to in PIT surely don't feel the same way about CHQ managment.

Also, how fare was it when they fired (not furloughed) guys after 9-11. (saab crews) The teamsters didnt seem to mind either from what I heard.

Maybe feelings toward your managment are diffrent in diffrent bases. I hope so.

 

[hellas]

Let me rephrase my response, PSA 's pilot and FA group are easy to get along with and well respected, I meant it from a story I was once told from a PSA Capt. who told me that if there was a problem with 328 and they told MX or Mgmt that they would bring it back to a MX base to do the company a favor or it may be minor at the time, that management would actually prick on the Capt. to the FAA(POI). When I heard this I could not believe my ears and he proceeded to tell me that this contempt is throughout managment for the pilot group. Now, our managment does have its sins what they did is criminal to a union, but the only poeple that should have been hung for the CHQ layoff was the union itself and the utter stupidity of the previous contract. In the probationay period of one year at CHQ a guy can be fired for ANYHTING, I mean ANYTHING at the leisure of the company. CHQ has hired all the layoffs back (out of seniority, mind you). But the act of good faith is there. We have a very solid union group now that seems to have a clear direction although most of the time we as a pilot group dont know what it is because of lack of communication i.e. newletter, email, any other..But we believe that one day the teamsters will discover phones, letters and maybe carrier pigeons..Oh yeah the in my monthly Temster magazine the "Meat carving truck drivers from HillBilly corp." got a 6 cent raise and a new shiny blue satin jacket that has their name on the front....

 

[328dude]

Yea, i did hear a story like that once. However, the POI found out on his own and he was a real jerk anyway. He's gone now since we moved from the CMH FSDO to the CVG fsdo and she actually likes us.

Weird aint it.

Glad to hear that your Managment had some good faith for the guys they sent packing.

Best of luck to you\

 

[erjdriver]

Don't go to neither ofthe 2.
Try Comair, ASA, AirWhisky.
CHQ has a great brunch of people, but management doesn't give a rat about us, we are the ONLY carrier which FIRED its pilots (out of seniority), we are Teamsters (that says it all), no pay protection for flight cancellations (for any reason). The good side: 22 more RJs in FL (that counts as a double bonus), and (did I mention it) a great bruch of people.

Good luck.

 

[BoredToDeath]

Take the first one that calls and keep paying the bills. Later on when things get better you can pick and choose.

As far as CHQ is concerned, out of all those contracts that they have, a couple won't be around for that much longer.(Not trying to start a flame war just want to see justice for Eagle) Hopefully the Eagle pilots will win thier lawsuit against AMR and American Connection will go away. And only those carriers who have signed on with the jets4jobs(not that I'm for it but it keeps us in the game) will continue to grow and be merged into one Express carrier for US Airways.

PSA is getting ready for somthing big. People are upgrading left and right and I belive new hire classes are scheduled through Dec. This situation is "rare" here, usually everyone is getting junnior manned, so keep you eyes open and good luck.

By the way, I haven't heard anything about Eagles fight lately. Any Eagle guys/gals have any updates?

 

[BoredToDeath]

This is me saying sorry I pretty much just repeated most of what 328dude previously wrote. Somtimes I read through these to fast.

Take Care and Good Luck where ever you go.

 

[Burt Gutherie]

In your shoes there would be no question. Go with Chautauqua. Every company has it's problems but some have more than others.
CHQ is more diversified(4) in code share agreements. Granted US Airways is in Bankruptcy but the trend seems to be regional jets with their new CEO. CHQ management has been great about growing the company but could work on their employee relations. The firing of the 125 FO's will not be forgotten(All since have returned.) Many pilots are excited about the growth of the Orlando base. CHQ's fleet up Embraer jets are well maintained and fun to fly. Chautauqua's pilot group didn't cave on the JETS FOR JOB proposal that US Airways pilot group is selling. On that fact alone your decision should be clear. I understand that some pilot groups don't have a choice but CHQ's pilots did and rejected the proposal.
PSA has a hard working group of people who deserve the best. I hope they come out on top in all of there plans. Be carefull in your decision and read the JetsForJob proposal, it really is a dance with the devil. Look at the big picture of security, equipment, and bases, especially in todays environment. Good Luck.

 

[FlyingDawg]

I know this isn't part of this topic, but I heard recently that CHQ wanted to become ALPA at one time, and ALPA turned them down. Some on this board have mentioned that the teamsters failed the CHQ pilots in the past. Anyone know why ALPA turned them down or if this is actually true? Seems to me this might have been a mistake in ALPA's case since CHQ has grown very quickly. In addition ALPA won't be able to stop or slow this regional from acquiring larger aircraft that ALPA seems to be totally against. I'm not saying they should or shouldn't be able to , just that ALPA missed their chance to do so.

 

[DorkProp]

ALPA will have that power as long as ALPA represents the major ailrines that CHQ codeshares with. It has nothing to do with who represents CHQ.

ALPA Comair didn't restrict RJs. ALPA Delta did.
ALPA American Eagle didn't restrict RJs. APA did.

 

[Brother Francis]

This is hearsay.

The CHQ pilots approached ALPA in the late 90's. ALPA said thanks, but no thanks; you are too small.

 

[meanstreak]

The reason PSA is hiring so much is because we lose more people than we can hire, or so it seems. This company has been plauged with a shortage of pilots ever since I've been here. This month already most of our Captain's on reserve have been flying as First Officers. We hired tons of furloughed guys recently and most of them have left, which is leaving us in a bind. Yes, maybe we will hear some good news soon, but I'm optimistic. I would love to see jets here some day, but sometimes I don't think we deserve them. If we ever do get new airplanes I don't know how our management is going to try and handle staffing the new airplanes when we can't even staff correctly now.

 

[328dude]

And where did you get this info? Hmmmm, makes me wonder...

Are you aware of the staffing report error for August that threw us into Limbo? Didnt think so.

 

[stick-n-rudder]

PSA:

1. First Wholely Owned (WO) to accept J4J. Ratified by the PSA ALPA MEC. (Albiet without pilot vote.) (PSA FA negotiations ongoing)

2. First WO to ratify "concessionary" TA via PSA ALPA MEC ratification. (again no pilot membership vote)

3. PSA public statement "PSA will lease old NCR training facility at Dayton Airport Inn(hotel). Second floor will be renovated for new training facility".(Dayton Daily News) PSA aquired former US DAY Res. facility for additional training/office space.(Inside Info)

4. PSA ALPA Negotiating Committee Chair appionted to Mid-Atlantic Negotiation Committee by ALPA President Duane Woerth. Woerth comments "Capt. Moon will represent the Express pilots at Mid-Atlantic".(ALPA)

5. PSA hires former Mainline Training person to write a Advanced Qualification Pilot (AQP) training program for PSA. This person was quoted " PSA offered me a deal I could'nt refuse". This person wrote the mainline AQP program for the B737.(Inside info)

6. PSA hired former management pilots that were fourloughed from mainline after Sept.11 and they have stated that they will stay with PSA because of managements statements to them that "RJ's are coming to PSA".(read: Training pilot Capt. pay and sched. at PSA or MDA FO pay and Sched.? these guys were junior at mainline.)

7. VP of Operations while on a PSA jumpseat said "We will get the ERJ. It will be equipped with dual FMS,GPS,ACARS and will get CAT II Certification. DAY will do the ground training and the sim. will be in the US PIT training facility".

8. PSA files a petition with the FAA and is approved, to change FAA oversite from CMH FSDO to the CVG FSDO because CVG FSDO has "more experience with RJ's". (read ComAir experience) Three CMH FSDO inspectors transfer to the CVG FSDO. Chief Maint. inspector is one of the transferes and is quoted "the Maint. problems at PSA will end when the new aircraft come on line"!(FED)

9. PSA will upgrade 24 FO's to Capt. by the end of Dec. 02. With projected new hire FO's to exceed 35 by years end. PSA operates 28 D328's with 2 spares. 170(+-) Capts. currently on the seniority list not including final upgrade numbers and 130(+-) fo's not including new hires. PSA will be way over staffed by the new year at 340 pilots (+-)?

10. PSA MEC and PSA Merger Committee Chair meet with Mid-Atlantic Negotiating Committee to discuss seniority integration.

11. Commander Munn states that Dave said "PSA can get own financing for RJ's?"

These are facts and not my opinions!

Now my opinions:

You would be best to stay with a wholy owned express carrier. At least at PSA you will be building seniority, that is if all things work out, which would in the long term get you to a mainline job. PSA has a flowthrow with the new MidAtlantic and on to Mainline. You won't get that at CHQ. Other posts on this website indicate that Northwest and Delta ALPA are exploring the seniority integration issue. This I believe is because of ALPA National preasure to show leadership and try to hold the pilot groups together? Bargaining power! Take this for what its worth?

O and by the way the PSA Dorknob initial training program is a worthless piece of **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** and that should way however slightly in your decision!

 

[Redtailer]

CHQ is hands down the better choice of the two. Upgrade time is reasonable, management-labor problems (Show me an airline without them), great crews, good wages, a decent contract, and a proven industry survivor.

PSA does have some great people working there, but they have had at least, if not more management-labor problems than CHQ. Also the flow through that PSA has does have a MAJOR flaw. You have to first go through the ranks at PSA to have an interview for an FO position at Mid-Atlantic, then you will get a shot at mainline. Last time I checked, the FO's (Read Furloughed US pilots) at Mid-Atlantic will be in those seats for a MINIMUM of 4 years or more. Remember the last furlough at mainline went on for 10 years.........

Let's not kid ourselves, for a senior PSA Captain to make it to mainline with the flow through he will be looking at almost 6 years!!!!! How long do you think a new hire at PSA would take? By the time you get to mainline, you could have already been flying at another major for 3 years or more.

Not a good deal by any stretch of the imagination. This is assuming of course the economy actually improves in the next year or so AND mainline decides not to downsize or shift anymore flying to the regionals.

 

[d328pilot]

I am not really which choice that I would make in your place. However, I will tell you that I am happy here at PSA. It has been a little stressful lately with all that is going on, but I am optimistic that things will work out. The info above about the flow through is not correct. While the final details of seniority integration have not been finalized, there will be a 100% flow through to mid-atlantic from the WOs. You will not have to interview at mid-atlantic or mainline to have the job. You will also keep longevity when you flow up. So for example, I have been at PSA for 2 years. If it takes me another 5 years to flow up to mid-atlantic, then my first year there, i will be makin 7th year pay. It really is not that bad of a deal. And in reality, not many of our senior people will choose to flow up. If we get jets, then they will be making a very comfortable living here with good schedules. I dont believe that they would flow up for an extra 20 seats. So with an integrated seniority list, it is just a matter of time. You will have to sit at a WO for a while, and Mid atlantic for a while, and you will have a job at mainline one day if you are young enough. And even if you are not young enough to flow up, from what i hear the Mid atlantic pay will be tied to the top 3 regionals.

I am just trying to give you some information so you can make an informed decision. I think the best choice is the first that offers you a job...Either place will be whatever you make of it.