CHQ or ASA

[ERJDRVR]

PS. the arrogance of WO is unbelievable. and i for one am tired of comair +1 talk, just do it, and quit telling us and trying to place yourself up on another level when you havent done it yet. the fact is you arent going to be in the negotiating room and your going to be left to vote on some good things and bad things, not perfect things.

HUH ?????

 

[sweptback]

Are you serious? East coast and Florida is the highest yielding routes in the country.

Sure, the East coast market is high yielding, but I never said it wasn't.

The type of flying that CHQ does out of MCO is most definitely not high yield. As it was pointed out elsewhere in the thread, DL threw CHQ in the mix to move its more lucrative assets elsewhere.

Most people that go to MCO are doing so on vacation. They bought their tickets 3 months in advance and paid the rock bottom price for it. This is as low-yield as you can possibly get.

 

[ProLine4]

Sure, the East coast market is high yielding, but I never said it wasn't.

The type of flying that CHQ does out of MCO is most definitely not high yield. As it was pointed out elsewhere in the thread, DL threw CHQ in the mix to move its more lucrative assets elsewhere.

Most people that go to MCO are doing so on vacation. They bought their tickets 3 months in advance and paid the rock bottom price for it. This is as low-yield as you can possibly get.

Again, as previously stated, MCO is NOT high yield in regards to the MCO RJ operation ONLY (MAINLINE's feed into MCO is a completely different story).
The DCI WO's did not want any of the MCO jet flying for this very reason...I know for a fact that when OH pulled their Brasilias and closed their MCO operation, EV mgmt declined the opportunity to open a MCO base with ANY aircraft (including the then shrinking Brasilia fleet or the cash-cow AT7) because the company's aircraft resources would make more money with either staying put as is, or going to the then still-young DFW CR2 and CR7 expansion.
Hence the entrance of CHQ to DCI with MCO contract ops. Big D maintains intra-Florida and regional market presence, and Chit gets the check at the end of the month no matter how many seats go full or empty. Pilot issues aside, it made sense at the time for everyone, but things may change if Grinstein pulls everything back in house.

 

[NoName]

someone save this thread so the next time one of the assa pilots starts to whine about a contract carrier stealing their flying, they can just remind them that they didnt want it.

 

[Anaconda]

I know for a fact that when OH pulled their SF340s and closed their MCO operation, EV mgmt declined the opportunity to open a MCO base with ANY aircraft (including the then shrinking Brasilia fleet or the cash-cow AT7)

what SF340's???

 

[RegionalFA]

On the ASA side, if you want to think pay, ASA second year pay is almost what FO pay Tops out at CHQ. And that is our old contract. As for the comment that if Usair tanks, Delta will just add all the jets to the Delta side is simply not true, and mostly wishfull thinking! Delta is just not going to invent flying to take on a bunch of jets that suddenly come available. I know CHQ folks are so proud of themselves for all of their code-shares and growth, but they only got Delta flying that basically ASA and Comair did not want to do additionally due to the low yields of the cities given up.....and then a bunch of DFW flying that ASA could not cover quick enough when the emb120's were retired. CHQ was able to step in and provide service. Look for ASA to eventually get this flying back. If a code-share tanks for CHQ, they will be hurting!

and that explains delta taking over the 12 am. west planes and routes... with chq at the helm... how? Oh wait. According to this, that wouldn't have happened. And it did.

Yes, it would hurt to lose a code share. Will it be CHQ's demise? unlikely. Rest assured that the "guys" upstairs know full well what "could" happen and they aren't sitting there waiting to see... they're up there making contingency plans for all the "what ifs" and they have more inside info than most of this board combined.

Personally, I'd take whatever job I could get now. When another opportunity comes along, evaluate your situation then. But, I wouldn't pass up an offer now for something that may come along later.

I think you need to look for the airline that suits you. Stop asking opinions. Stop asking people to compare. Find out the facts about individual airlines and make your own decisions. If you're a "big boy" and can fly commercially, then for heavens sake, do a little research and figure out what's best for you.


oh, and flights that asa and comair didn't want? are you kidding me? why all the cr@p about us "stealing" your/their flying then? Why do you blast out of spots in order to be an @ss as I'm standing next to my plane the next spot over? Anyone that buys that is crazy. We weren't the only bid for those routes. oh, and low loads? Not usually, Most of my DAL flights have been full (a light load being half - which is still profitable). As far as yeilds, we get paid the same by DAL regardless of what they sell the tickets for... we can fly the most "lucrative flights or the least" we get paid.

 

[ProLine4]

what SF340's???

Typo, meant the Brasilia, not Saab. And as for the "not wanting the MCO flying" statement, that was DCI management's decision, not any line pilot's call.

 

[AirBill]

Oh thank GOD for this thread! I just couldn't get enough of the LAST thread of thisairlinereeks or thatairlinesucks.

I just LOVE IT when I find a board whereupon pilots from all sorts of companies hurl invectives at each other, all the while claiming that his or her pilot group is the greatest thing since Lindbergh and the rest of us are full of crap and the reason why this industry is going to hell.

I mean seriously, I should create pilotsbashingpilots.com, or whipsawrules.org. Might as well make a buck or two myself, given all the bad vibes that are flowing here.

You'd better watch out. We're about to prove to management that the worst thing about airlines are the pilots.

 

[g159av8tor]

Will someone PLEASE log me out of the IAD Holiday Inn Express computer...not my remarks.
Tailwinds...

 

[AirBill]

I dont want to get in a pissing match with you. I have numerous friends at CHQ, but it cracks me up when you say with a straight face that you are all so proud of your growth, when the only reason for it is you continue to offer your company the ability to bid low because you will work cheap.

Let's get it right, 'K? The reason why CHQ got those routes has everything to do with the operating costs of an EMB 135 versus a CRJ and very little to do with pilot compensation. You are correct in that the yields out of MCO are low, and it didn't make financial sense to fly 50-seat CRJs when 37-seat 135s would do it more efficiently. DL could have used Brasilias for those routes, but the company wanted jets instead of turboprops.

And come on, let's face facts. The difference in pay between CHQ and Comair/ASA isn't that much of a savings. Given the work rules differences, the contracts are pretty much a wash. The real difference comes in the equipment, plain and simple.

 

[jaybird]

Will someone PLEASE log me out of the IAD Holiday Inn Express computer...not my remarks.
Tailwinds...

HA...HA...HA looks like staying at a Holiday Inn Express really doesn't make you smarter.

 

[RegionalFA]

Let's get it right, 'K? The reason why CHQ got those routes has everything to do with the operating costs of an EMB 135 versus a CRJ and very little to do with pilot compensation. You are correct in that the yields out of MCO are low, and it didn't make financial sense to fly 50-seat CRJs when 37-seat 135s would do it more efficiently. DL could have used Brasilias for those routes, but the company wanted jets instead of turboprops.

And come on, let's face facts. The difference in pay between CHQ and Comair/ASA isn't that much of a savings. Given the work rules differences, the contracts are pretty much a wash. The real difference comes in the equipment, plain and simple.

What I don't understand is why CHQ pilot's pay really matters much in this sense. Obviously, it allows CHQ to bid slightly lower (but is $10 an hour really gonna make that much difference when we're talking thousands of dollars per flight?) DAL pays CHQ a set fee per flight. regardless of the Capt. being 1st year or 10th year pay. same for the rest of the crew. So, our pay rate really has little to do with DAL's decision at all in all likelyhood.

I agree... the decision was primarily made on equipment. They, like any airline trying to make a smart decision, took the revenue into consideration and decided which bid/airline/equipment could run the routes most effeciently for their dollar.


it's amazing to me how this always comes down to a contract pissing contest.

 

[ASApuppy]

The reason CHQ got the flying was because Delta jumped in when America West jumped out. It allowed Delta to expand immediately. Good for you, good for Delta. It also allowed for an accelerated retirement of the EMB-120's at ASA. We are in negotiations and if you ask a few people I think management here at ASA handled the whole thing with the motto of "How can we make life suck for the most pilots possible and for the least cost".

In the long run though, a wholly-owned is more profitable, but less flexible. Time will tell what Delta needs more.

 

[OldManPilot]

If i remember correctly, at one time Comair and ASA were independant airlines that were PURCHASED by DAL. You seem to feel some kind of entitlement to ALL the DAL Regional flying, however; DAL still views it all as business. A good business decision is to hire whoever can do the job well and at the best price. They will continue to do this in the future as well. I believe this is where the true anger from these threads originates. You get angry because you cannot compete at the same rates, thus your growth gets hampered by company's that can. But remember.... you fly the planes, you don't make the business decisions. What do you say we just leave things to those who do them best. Pilots fly airplanes, mangement manages the business. I am sure if managment thought us pilots knew how to run the business, you would see more airlines with CEO's or CFO's that were pilots..... Just quit the bickering and do what you do best.... unless bickering is what you do best.
Sound like a bunch of old women.

 

[feste80]

I just got off the phone with a friend who interviewed on Feb 4th. His class date is Feb. 27th. I guess CHQ has started back with classes, however, I don't know how many people are in his class or how many classes are scheduled afterwards. And by the way, g159av8tor, I just logged you off.

 

[701EV]

Speaking of equipment, over the weekend I heard from an ASA IP. That the CRJ700 is going to start doing ATL-EYW-MCO-EYW-ATL. The reason being is the EMB-135 is leaving to many people and bags in EYW. The 700 can carry 70 pax and all the bags to MCO.

Don't know if it's true but thats what he said?

701EV

 

[void]

I haven't seen or heard anything about CHQ pulling out of EYW, but I doubt it. I also wouldn't read too much into ASA flying the 700 from EYW to MCO. If it is true they are most likely increasing capacity for Spring Break.

 

[DrinkSweetTea]

Delta.com is still showing 135's for the rest of the year. But my take is, if EYW can support a 70 seater and Delta can make more money for it, then thats good for everyone.

 

[retire02]

Airportbum,

Back to one of your questions....

Being a New Hire at ASA doesn't mean you will get a class date. I have been one for 16 months. They redo the order of merit everytime they interview. So if someone more qualified than you interviews after you, you slide down the list.

I wouldn't wait around for ASA to call - they may never call. If you have another offer run with it.

 

[brew3departure]

Swimming...

I'll second what the person right above me said. Wading in the pool, unless it's got it's own pool list, social events and what not (a la SWA) is no fun at all.

I had a similar experience - got furloughed, interviewed with a different airline that would have been about a hundred times better than the one that laid me off -- and I waited...and waited...all the while, classes were going on, but no call for me. I did all the usual things, updated once a month, continued to fly when I could, etc...

At least with a pool like SWA, you know exactly where you are. Other companies don't necessarily follow this course of action. You don't really know where you stand, and you end up drowning, or almost drowning, while you could have been pursuing other avenues.

Perhaps some other CHQ person can correct me, but to my knowledge, the only reason they even have a "pool" per se is they don't schedule their new hire classes months and months in advance. When the classes get set, you get called - I think there's a pool for Purdue folks and/or interns that's a little different, but for off the street guys, unless things really do change industry wide and they cancel a class or something, it's merely a wait until they (CHQ) get the green light to run another class.

Long story short, if CHQ works for you, go and enjoy it. You might be left "swingin' in the breeze" otherwise, without a towel, scuba gear, sunblock, bathing suit...you get the idea.

Take care,
-brew3

 

[tinpusher101]

Speaking of equipment, over the weekend I heard from an ASA IP. That the CRJ700 is going to start doing ATL-EYW-MCO-EYW-ATL. The reason being is the EMB-135 is leaving to many people and bags in EYW. The 700 can carry 70 pax and all the bags to MCO.

this is complete bullsh*t

Maybe a bean counter is seeing that the loads are full everyday.

Why not get 70 out vs 37 ???

please do bring the CRJ700 this is good for non revs

 

[ERJDRVR]

The E135 takes a full load 98% of the time. VERY SELDOM do they bump anyone. Only when an ALT in MCO is needed is there a chance of bumping pax. The E145 does NOT fair as well into here. Especially with the new weights.

The same thing applies to the CRJ700. With delay and weather into ATL, this is more an effect on them.

Either way, CHQ Crews will be the first ones to buy you beers in EYW when you guys make it in for the night.

More non-rev seats for us all to go party down there in.

 

[RJFlyer]

retire02 -

It may have changed since I was hired, but there was no "order of merit" in the new-hire pool. They had a list of names; when they got the green light for a class, they went to the top of the list and started calling. The list was in order of interview/hire. Let's say there were 20 slots. If you happened to answer the phone, you were in. If you didn't, and returned the call before the 20th spot was filled by people who DID answer the phone, you were in. If you returned the call and you were the 21st, tough luck, you went back on the poolie list and it started all over.

You've got to answer the phone when they call, plain and simple. Then again, we haven't hired in 13 or 14 months, so it's not surprising you've been in the pool for 16 months.

Again, this could have changed, but that's how it was when I was hired (I got the message within 5 minutes of the call, called back immediately, and got a slot. Guys above me on the list didn't, and didn't).

At any rate, good luck, ASA is a great place to be.

And as to the original question, as many others have said - go wherever they give you a class date first, SENIORITY IS EVERYTHING.

 

[retire02]

RJflyer,

I wish it was the way you said, but it is not. I spoke to the director of pilot recruitment and that is exactly the way she explained it to me. Others that I know on the inside are very angry with this practice and are ashamed of the company for adopting this practice. It may be better for the company in the long run, but it shows me that they don't value people and that you can't trust what they say.

 

[e120pilot]

Welcome to ASA!

If you expect the company to care about you, there aren't many airlines out there that will fit that bill. I'm not saying this is right, but I can tell you it's no different than what will happen to you once hired. I don't think ASA is that bad of a place to work, but I know they could care less about me. You can let it bother you, just accept it and move on.

 

[buster232]

ASA Pool

I was told the same thing my interview, that is they (ASA) pull from the pool based on your total flight time. Also they space out the number furloughees so the don't lose an entire class to recalls etc. Smart business practice but could result in long waits for low time hires. The good news is that there is little to no pool at this time (from what I was told) I am still waiting to hear if I got the job.


On another subject....I have an offer from TSA and I do not know which one to take. With regards to all of the previous posts and not trying to start any fueds, which one would be a more stable bet?

Here are my thoughts feel free to pile on

TSA
Goods - higher 1st year pay ($2), quicker upgrade (2 years?) (i.e. more pay), little to no reserve, can bid to either base fairly soon, travel benes on AA, UAL, and USA

Others - US Airways could fold soon, Lower 2d year pay ($24 vs $32), The Domiclies are in colder climes, low pay and provide your own housing during training

ASA
Goods- I like Atlanta, DAL travel benes are claimed to the best (I don't know) more pay 2d year, a higher position in the hiring pool (they have hired roughly 100 of the 400 planned so I would be closer to the top) More like 200+ of 400 at TSA. Paid housing during training

Others- Longer upgrade (3 - 5 years?) , up to 18 months reserve
Delta is talking about Bankruptcy (could be a negotiationg tactic for concessions but I am not privvy to that info) Uncertainty around new contract, could there be a strike?

I know that I will be lucky if I get two offers so I am grateful. If anything that I said here is incorrect please chime in. I welcome your opinions