CHQ or ASA

[ERJDRVR]

PS. the arrogance of WO is unbelievable. and i for one am tired of comair +1 talk, just do it, and quit telling us and trying to place yourself up on another level when you havent done it yet. the fact is you arent going to be in the negotiating room and your going to be left to vote on some good things and bad things, not perfect things.

HUH ?????

 

[sweptback]

Are you serious? East coast and Florida is the highest yielding routes in the country.

Sure, the East coast market is high yielding, but I never said it wasn't.

The type of flying that CHQ does out of MCO is most definitely not high yield. As it was pointed out elsewhere in the thread, DL threw CHQ in the mix to move its more lucrative assets elsewhere.

Most people that go to MCO are doing so on vacation. They bought their tickets 3 months in advance and paid the rock bottom price for it. This is as low-yield as you can possibly get.

 

[ProLine4]

Sure, the East coast market is high yielding, but I never said it wasn't.

The type of flying that CHQ does out of MCO is most definitely not high yield. As it was pointed out elsewhere in the thread, DL threw CHQ in the mix to move its more lucrative assets elsewhere.

Most people that go to MCO are doing so on vacation. They bought their tickets 3 months in advance and paid the rock bottom price for it. This is as low-yield as you can possibly get.

Again, as previously stated, MCO is NOT high yield in regards to the MCO RJ operation ONLY (MAINLINE's feed into MCO is a completely different story).
The DCI WO's did not want any of the MCO jet flying for this very reason...I know for a fact that when OH pulled their Brasilias and closed their MCO operation, EV mgmt declined the opportunity to open a MCO base with ANY aircraft (including the then shrinking Brasilia fleet or the cash-cow AT7) because the company's aircraft resources would make more money with either staying put as is, or going to the then still-young DFW CR2 and CR7 expansion.
Hence the entrance of CHQ to DCI with MCO contract ops. Big D maintains intra-Florida and regional market presence, and Chit gets the check at the end of the month no matter how many seats go full or empty. Pilot issues aside, it made sense at the time for everyone, but things may change if Grinstein pulls everything back in house.

 

[NoName]

someone save this thread so the next time one of the assa pilots starts to whine about a contract carrier stealing their flying, they can just remind them that they didnt want it.

 

[Anaconda]

I know for a fact that when OH pulled their SF340s and closed their MCO operation, EV mgmt declined the opportunity to open a MCO base with ANY aircraft (including the then shrinking Brasilia fleet or the cash-cow AT7)

what SF340's???

 

[RegionalFA]

On the ASA side, if you want to think pay, ASA second year pay is almost what FO pay Tops out at CHQ. And that is our old contract. As for the comment that if Usair tanks, Delta will just add all the jets to the Delta side is simply not true, and mostly wishfull thinking! Delta is just not going to invent flying to take on a bunch of jets that suddenly come available. I know CHQ folks are so proud of themselves for all of their code-shares and growth, but they only got Delta flying that basically ASA and Comair did not want to do additionally due to the low yields of the cities given up.....and then a bunch of DFW flying that ASA could not cover quick enough when the emb120's were retired. CHQ was able to step in and provide service. Look for ASA to eventually get this flying back. If a code-share tanks for CHQ, they will be hurting!

and that explains delta taking over the 12 am. west planes and routes... with chq at the helm... how? Oh wait. According to this, that wouldn't have happened. And it did.

Yes, it would hurt to lose a code share. Will it be CHQ's demise? unlikely. Rest assured that the "guys" upstairs know full well what "could" happen and they aren't sitting there waiting to see... they're up there making contingency plans for all the "what ifs" and they have more inside info than most of this board combined.

Personally, I'd take whatever job I could get now. When another opportunity comes along, evaluate your situation then. But, I wouldn't pass up an offer now for something that may come along later.

I think you need to look for the airline that suits you. Stop asking opinions. Stop asking people to compare. Find out the facts about individual airlines and make your own decisions. If you're a "big boy" and can fly commercially, then for heavens sake, do a little research and figure out what's best for you.


oh, and flights that asa and comair didn't want? are you kidding me? why all the cr@p about us "stealing" your/their flying then? Why do you blast out of spots in order to be an @ss as I'm standing next to my plane the next spot over? Anyone that buys that is crazy. We weren't the only bid for those routes. oh, and low loads? Not usually, Most of my DAL flights have been full (a light load being half - which is still profitable). As far as yeilds, we get paid the same by DAL regardless of what they sell the tickets for... we can fly the most "lucrative flights or the least" we get paid.

 

[ProLine4]

what SF340's???

Typo, meant the Brasilia, not Saab. And as for the "not wanting the MCO flying" statement, that was DCI management's decision, not any line pilot's call.

 

[AirBill]

Oh thank GOD for this thread! I just couldn't get enough of the LAST thread of thisairlinereeks or thatairlinesucks.

I just LOVE IT when I find a board whereupon pilots from all sorts of companies hurl invectives at each other, all the while claiming that his or her pilot group is the greatest thing since Lindbergh and the rest of us are full of crap and the reason why this industry is going to hell.

I mean seriously, I should create pilotsbashingpilots.com, or whipsawrules.org. Might as well make a buck or two myself, given all the bad vibes that are flowing here.

You'd better watch out. We're about to prove to management that the worst thing about airlines are the pilots.

 

[g159av8tor]

Will someone PLEASE log me out of the IAD Holiday Inn Express computer...not my remarks.
Tailwinds...

 

[AirBill]

I dont want to get in a pissing match with you. I have numerous friends at CHQ, but it cracks me up when you say with a straight face that you are all so proud of your growth, when the only reason for it is you continue to offer your company the ability to bid low because you will work cheap.

Let's get it right, 'K? The reason why CHQ got those routes has everything to do with the operating costs of an EMB 135 versus a CRJ and very little to do with pilot compensation. You are correct in that the yields out of MCO are low, and it didn't make financial sense to fly 50-seat CRJs when 37-seat 135s would do it more efficiently. DL could have used Brasilias for those routes, but the company wanted jets instead of turboprops.

And come on, let's face facts. The difference in pay between CHQ and Comair/ASA isn't that much of a savings. Given the work rules differences, the contracts are pretty much a wash. The real difference comes in the equipment, plain and simple.

 

[jaybird]

Will someone PLEASE log me out of the IAD Holiday Inn Express computer...not my remarks.
Tailwinds...

HA...HA...HA looks like staying at a Holiday Inn Express really doesn't make you smarter.

 

[RegionalFA]

Let's get it right, 'K? The reason why CHQ got those routes has everything to do with the operating costs of an EMB 135 versus a CRJ and very little to do with pilot compensation. You are correct in that the yields out of MCO are low, and it didn't make financial sense to fly 50-seat CRJs when 37-seat 135s would do it more efficiently. DL could have used Brasilias for those routes, but the company wanted jets instead of turboprops.

And come on, let's face facts. The difference in pay between CHQ and Comair/ASA isn't that much of a savings. Given the work rules differences, the contracts are pretty much a wash. The real difference comes in the equipment, plain and simple.

What I don't understand is why CHQ pilot's pay really matters much in this sense. Obviously, it allows CHQ to bid slightly lower (but is $10 an hour really gonna make that much difference when we're talking thousands of dollars per flight?) DAL pays CHQ a set fee per flight. regardless of the Capt. being 1st year or 10th year pay. same for the rest of the crew. So, our pay rate really has little to do with DAL's decision at all in all likelyhood.

I agree... the decision was primarily made on equipment. They, like any airline trying to make a smart decision, took the revenue into consideration and decided which bid/airline/equipment could run the routes most effeciently for their dollar.


it's amazing to me how this always comes down to a contract pissing contest.

 

[ASApuppy]

The reason CHQ got the flying was because Delta jumped in when America West jumped out. It allowed Delta to expand immediately. Good for you, good for Delta. It also allowed for an accelerated retirement of the EMB-120's at ASA. We are in negotiations and if you ask a few people I think management here at ASA handled the whole thing with the motto of "How can we make life suck for the most pilots possible and for the least cost".

In the long run though, a wholly-owned is more profitable, but less flexible. Time will tell what Delta needs more.

 

[OldManPilot]

If i remember correctly, at one time Comair and ASA were independant airlines that were PURCHASED by DAL. You seem to feel some kind of entitlement to ALL the DAL Regional flying, however; DAL still views it all as business. A good business decision is to hire whoever can do the job well and at the best price. They will continue to do this in the future as well. I believe this is where the true anger from these threads originates. You get angry because you cannot compete at the same rates, thus your growth gets hampered by company's that can. But remember.... you fly the planes, you don't make the business decisions. What do you say we just leave things to those who do them best. Pilots fly airplanes, mangement manages the business. I am sure if managment thought us pilots knew how to run the business, you would see more airlines with CEO's or CFO's that were pilots..... Just quit the bickering and do what you do best.... unless bickering is what you do best.
Sound like a bunch of old women.

 

[feste80]

I just got off the phone with a friend who interviewed on Feb 4th. His class date is Feb. 27th. I guess CHQ has started back with classes, however, I don't know how many people are in his class or how many classes are scheduled afterwards. And by the way, g159av8tor, I just logged you off.