CHQ new Delta jets?

[BE90CPT]

jetflyer, who do you fly for?

 

[vc10]

That's "moot", not "mute". The latter means unable to speak, the former means inconsequential.

 

[surplus1]

First of all, I said it before and will say it again. BB can come to this pilot group until he is blue in the face. There will be no concessions from us to get more flying. If you don't believe that, you obviously don't know this pilot group.

I'm glad to hear that. I hope your tune won't change when you see those potential 80 new jets going somewhere else.

Second, let's talk about our deal with AA. We are not being pitted against Eagle here. If we were, we would already be in ORD and DFW.

I get your drift allright and I don't mind telling you it's BS. You're not going to ORD and DFW for AA because they haven't asked you to. That the same story we got when you came to MCO. You were only going to fly in Florida, yet the day you signed the contract with DL your company announced the purchase of 23 jets to do what CMR was doing with a dozen Brasilias. Overnight you were all over the system.

Sorry, but you are being played against Eagle and so is TSA. That has nothing to do with pilots. It's not the fault of CHQ pilots that any of that happened. However, when you start bragging about growth the came at the expense of others, you accept the responsibility for the rocks that get thrown at you. Nobody expects you to quit your jobs because of decisions by the company that you cannot control. Just stop bragging about it.

It would not benefit BB at all to see growth at CHQ go to SA. Will he come and ask us for concessions? Sure he could. Will he get them? Most likely NO.

Well, you just went from He!! NO in the first paragraph to most likely NO in the third paragraph. That's a big change and the games haven't even begun yet. We'll see what happens when you get the threat. You can bet it's coming one way or the other.

Don't be at all suprised Surlpus, if when all the bids come in, your own company is one of them, doing it under another op. cert.

The following provision of the Comair PWA takes care of that contingency. We included it before our company had an opportunity to do to us what your company did by creating Republic.

" if the Company establishes or acquires an air carrier engaged in air transportation within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. § 40102(a)
(hereinafter an “acquired carrier”), the Company will provide advance notice of the transaction to the Association. It will also operationally merge with the “acquired carrier” and become a single carrier with a single pilot craft or class, a single collective bargaining agreement, and a single integrated pilot seniority list."

Our problems do not stem from what Comair might do, they are caused by what Delta did (ask us for concessions) and by what Delta will do because we said no, i.e., give the flying to you or whoever underbids us.

I do have a problem with the concession makers, but that's not with CHQ. You may not have the best contract but you did improve substantially on what you had. The responsible parties for the rollover are SKYW, ARW and ACA. They all rushed to give up what they had in order to get from United what they already had, but wanted more of. If they had all said no, the roller coaster would have stopped. United simply could not have cancelled all of its regional feed or transferred it to Mesa. He!! they can't even figure out what to do about just ACA. Why do you think Mesa is trying to take over that company?

The pilot groups at those 3 airlines had no reason to rush to concessions, but they all did. Only one of them got what they wanted (which I contend they would have gotten anyway) but they have started a downward spiral in the regionals that won't be over for a long time. It was stupid and I'm not bashful about saying so.

Your post make it sound like we are all a bunch of idiots here at CHQ.

I really wasn't trying to do that, but you seem so worried about it that maybe I should have. "Me thinks thou doth protest too much."

You're raising points that were brought up long long long ago. We all know that the fight has only just begun. You know Wexford can do anything they want with SA. We could have gotten a contract 10 times a good as yours, and still not have any say on where they want to invest THEIR money. If they choose to give SA jets, more power to them. They are free to do so. You have to choose your fights very carefully in this business. It just so happens that the fight was on RP and having CHQ do all flying done by Rep. Holdings.

My point has nothing to do with whether you got a contract as good as ours or not. My point is that many of you have made bold statements about your contract's ability to allow you to get "growth" by charging less. That "growth" can only come at the expense of others and because your contract helps your company to underbid other carriers. That is how you got our base at MCO and it is how you may get Delta's growth flying; that would otherwise go to Comair or ASA. SKYW wont get it because they are in bed with UAL and ACA has other problems as well.

Don't think for a momement that Delta would not like to see UAL tank. They aren't going to do anything they don't have to that might help to prevent it. You've been in bed with U, and everyone knows that DAL would love to get rid of them a lot more than they would UAL, but what you do isn't big enough to matter. Still, it would not bother DAL if they could hug you enough to make you drop U and change lovers.

Your company may ask you for new concessions to get the new flying from Delta. IF you refuse as we have, which you say you will do, then your parent company may bid for that flying through SA instead of you. You acknowledge that is possible, yet you get angry because I said so.

If Wexford chooses to have SA bid on that flying and they get it, CHQ will be played against SA just as Comair is being played (by Delta) against you and all the other low bidders. Your successful effort to prevent a second list at Republic will then become moot.

You did get a single list with Republic and I think that's great. However do not say that you "stopped Republic" because the truth is you did not. Republic will operate and you were forced to reverse your stand against J4J to get the single list. In other words you made a concession and you got something in exchange. Reality is that your company did not start Republic to get you to work for less money, your previous contract was already at or near the bottom of the barrel. They started it to bypass your vote against J4J and get "growth" from US Airways. The fact is they got what they wanted and they were not stopped. As far as that part goes all you really did was repeat what Mesa did. They did not "stop Freedom", they just got on the list. Your CEO copied their CEO and you copied them.

You did do better than Mesa and you have a better contract. It improves everything that you had before. I don't criticize you for your contract, I criticize you for the attitude displayed by many of your pilots who have gloated, on this MB, about the growth you will get by working for less.

If you could not do better at the table that is understandble. No reasonable person expects you to achieve huge gains in these difficult times. Considering where you were you did well.

THE BIG PROBLEM HERE IS THAT WE ARE ALL TAKING FLYING THAT SHOULD BE DONE BY MAINLINE. We might underbid you is no different than you underbidding flying that belongs to the pilots at Delta. I don't want to see any regional grow because it only prolongs the time I have to fly an RJ. Until a major airline hires you into the right seat of an RJ, the problems will continue to get worse.

Now you're showing your true colors. I finally got you to admit the real axe that you have to grind. If your screen name and your profile are accurate indicators, you're a bitter TWA pilot unhappy about the step down to a regional. If you were ever at TWA and you were there long enough, then you should recognize that one of the reasons TWA tanked is because you had no domestic feed. If the TWA group hadn't been so busy trying to scope out the feed, which was the only thing that could possibly have kept them going, maybe you'd still be flying that DC9.

Regional carriers are not taking flying from the legacy carriers. The reason Delta is in the best position of all the majors is because of its large regional fleet. If it were not for that, they'd have another thousand pilots on the street on top of the thousand that are there now. If the Delta pilots had spent 1/4 of the effort they spent trying to keep CMR and ASA off their list in joining forces with us, not one of them would be on the street today, we would. They ought to be dam*ed glad we exist or a lot more of them would be pounding the pavement.

The large carriers are not losing flying because the regionals are taking it from them by underbidding or any other reason other than their own bad decisions made long ago and perpetuated today in statements like the one you just made. They missed the boat and you're missing it too.

 

[TWAER]

Thats' great surplus, I'm glad you can quote every sentence I write and refute it. You are entitled to your opinion. I am also entitled to mine. You come across as someone who knows everything about every aspect of this industry. Again, you have that right to spread your word any way you want. You say what bothers you is how people here at CHQ pound their chest about gaining more aircraft. So F**cking what. I have friends at AirTran that are very F**cking proud about what they have done and what they are about to do. Do you really think they give a crap about Possibly puting some Delta folks out of work or maybe forcing them to take concessions in the future because they have lower operating cost than Delta. If you do, man, you need some serious help. They want what is best for THEIR company. Not how it will affect Delta or whoever. We have a lot of guys here who want to be captain. (period). Gaining more AC helps them achieve that. I have yet to really see anyone on this board really pound their chest in joy over maybe slowing the growth of another carrier. You guys have to do the best for your company and we do the same. I could only guess the glee in you eye if you woke up tomorrow and found out that CHQ was losing our code with DAL. Would you feel bad for all those that were put out of work here. I would guess you would not lose any sleep over it.

As far as TWA, it really shows you know very little about it. Regional feed had very little to do with it. But again, that's just mine and oh maybe a few thousand other peoples little opinion.

You also have every right to think the regionals should continue to grow while the majors shrink. I disagree, and it have nothing to do with my past life. Regional jets are great for regional flights. Just remember that. My true colors are with the company I am with now.

Have a nice day and feel free to quote from me all day. You still show, however, that you still know very liitle about our situation at CHQ. As much as you try, you still fall a little short.

Oh sorry, HELL NO THIS PILOT WILL TAKE NO CONCESSIONS FROM BB!!!!!!!!!!. Didn't mean to give you something to argue about.