CHQ E190's

[miles otoole]

The topic of discussion here is what business tactics are dragging our profession down as pilots, not which business tactics are making an airline thrive. Naturally CHQ, Mesa, and their counterparts are thriving while the wholly owns are hurting. There's obviously no denying that. Why do you think the wholly owns are hurting? Simple, because of a select few contract carriers out there that survive only by operating as cheaply as possible and underbidding everyone that they possibly can. Their labor costs are lower because of poor wages and minimal staffing levels. They don't spend the extra money for things like CASS, just as one example. So, in turn, they underbid airlines like Comair with higher wages, better staffing, and other things that are there to benefit us as pilots. Its all part of the race to the bottom.

OK, and your point is??? We KNOW this. Once we accept it as pilots, we are much more able to cope. The ONLY way to beat 'em is to fight 'em. You ever want to upgrade, FWIW? You better beat 'em at their own game. It's all capitalism. You don't drop your salaries (or increase efficiencies), you are finished in this industry.

 

[h25b]

The topic of discussion here is what business tactics are dragging our profession down as pilots, not which business tactics are making an airline thrive. Naturally CHQ, Mesa, and their counterparts are thriving while the wholly owns are hurting. There's obviously no denying that. Why do you think the wholly owns are hurting? Simple, because of a select few contract carriers out there that survive only by operating as cheaply as possible and underbidding everyone that they possibly can. Their labor costs are lower because of poor wages and minimal staffing levels. They don't spend the extra money for things like CASS. So, in turn, they underbid airlines like Comair with higher wages, better staffing, and other things that are there to benefit us as pilots.

I can only speak semi-intelligently about CHQ, so lets slowly work through what you just said...

1. CHQ doesn't "only" survive by operating as cheaply as possible and underbidding everyone else. There's a bit more to it than that. For example, not having to pin their success/failure on only one airline is one of the factors along with being incredibly well positioned for growth with their airframe manufacturer which allowed them to be the most attractive provider for lift. This was originally created by Wexford, LLC. of Greenwich, CT. who bought out CHQ around 1998 (these were the people that hired Mr. Bedford from Mesaba). Wexford bought large numbers of delivery positions for the EMB's and then went out and bought an airline to further this investment. This advantage has been further enhanced by gambling on yet another EMB product (EMB-170's and its variants). Delta and all its "wholly-owned" wisedom bet the farm on the Canadair series which passengers have slowly and surely grown to hate... Anyone that has flown on the back of the EMB-170 AND the CL-700 can attest to this. I for example will drive an extra hour to an airport where I can get on Southwest instead of being trapped in two CRJ's for my business travel... God help you if you get the inside seat in that thing. It's awful!!! Horrible passenger comfort...

2. Understaffing ??? I can tell you that CHQ is by no means understaffed. By their contract with the pilots they can't be because THERE IS NO JUNIOR MANNING !!!! Anyone that really knows what they are talking about can say that the QOL at CHQ is not bad when compared to other regionals.

 

[OPECJet]

Just ask the folks at Piedmont and Allegheny how great the wholly-owned, fly-for-one carrier system works. The only thing keeping Delta from selling Comair tomorrow is that there's no one stupid enough to buy them. I remember sitting in the PIT crew room as a CHQ pilot back in 1999 and witnessing all of the PSA/Piedmont/Allegheny numb-nuts looking down their noses at us because they were "Holy" owned. Worked out great for them huh ???

.....and you've done what for your profession lately?????

 

[PIREP]

Using that analogy, when I graduated from DCA, I should have gone straight to Delta then.

There aren't any DCA Instructor Grads on the 170 as an FO. Captain yes, FO, no. I know of one person that flew a 1900 for Skyway and got hired on the 170, but they took a job at Comair instead. This person definitely doesn't work for CHQ on the 170, end of E170Guppykiller's story.

 

[eastflier]

You make a good point about everyone having to stop flyng bigger jets for crap wages, but the fact of the matter is that we as a pilot group will never be in control. It is over our heads and there is nothing that we can do to stop it. It is already beyond return and there will always be someone out there looking to fly BIG JETS for less than you are. Soon everyone will be flying for free.

 

[h25b]

.....

 

[h25b]

.....and you've done what for your profession lately?????

You don't even want to go there... My good deeds are many for others in this profession. Ranging from people I've met on the road to complete strangers I have been connected with through this board. You'd be wise to back off from that path with me pal.

I could start a list for you, but that would lack class and it's too much typing.

So... What exactly is it that I said that was incorrect since I evidently touched a nerve ???

 

[reject007]

As I always say: Hey Guppykiller! I must take a baseball bat to your nutsack, because somehow you're making me look bad you f-ing tool!

Sometimes, violence is the answer folks.

 

[OPECJet]

I remember sitting in the PIT crew room as a CHQ pilot back in 1999 and witnessing all of the PSA/Piedmont/Allegheny numb-nuts looking down their noses at us because they were "Holy" owned. Worked out great for them huh ???

That comment was the ticket. I can see where you're coming from a little better after a good night's sleep, but PDT crews have been watching our bases close, aircraft disappear, schedules get worse, and our future getting dimmer. This happens while CHQ, Mesa, PSA, and now Air Willy bring more and more RJs onto the property to replace us, and mainline flying. Most of us realize the problem doesn't lie solely with the carriers flying the RJs. It begins with mainline management not realizing how much of an asset we can be. On the flip side, pilots making less flying those jets than we make flying our Dashes doesn't help either.

 

[h25b]

That comment was the ticket. I can see where you're coming from a little better after a good night's sleep, but PDT crews have been watching our bases close, aircraft disappear, schedules get worse, and our future getting dimmer. This happens while CHQ, Mesa, PSA, and now Air Willy bring more and more RJs onto the property to replace us, and mainline flying. Most of us realize the problem doesn't lie solely with the carriers flying the RJs. It begins with mainline management not realizing how much of an asset we can be. On the flip side, pilots making less flying those jets than we make flying our Dashes doesn't help either.

I knew a ton of guys at PDT when they were the it place to get on and getting a call from Bob Trout was the greatest thing ever while at the same time people thought that going to CHQ was nuts.

At any rate, trying to blame any of these regional pilots is like watching a guy ignite his farts. Fun to watch, but very dangerous and misguided...

Like I have been saying since around 1997, the mainline unions made a HUGE mistake by giving these "kids" the RJ's in the first place. I'm not against blaming people for their mistakes, as long as the shotgun is pointed in the right direction..

 

[tie1on]

has anyone figured out that the carriers are using each gorup against each other to lower the bar. and the stupid pilot keep biting because of the golden apple of bigger aircraft. Don't be disappointed about not advancing your career from your current position.

Always remember airline pilot eat their young. especially the executives. If it not mesa, air willy or whoever, ther will always be someone who will work for free. sad but true.

 

[miles otoole]

has anyone figured out that the carriers are using each gorup against each other to lower the bar. and the stupid pilot keep biting because of the golden apple of bigger aircraft. Don't be disappointed about not advancing your career from your current position.

Always remember airline pilot eat their young. especially the executives. If it not mesa, air willy or whoever, ther will always be someone who will work for free. sad but true.

This we know. Proposed solution???

 

[OPECJet]

I've got a better chance of hooking up with (insert famous rich ass untouchable hottie here) than pilots working together.

 

[twinbeech]

Always remember airline pilot eat their young. especially the executives. If it not mesa, air willy or whoever, ther will always be someone who will work for free. sad but true.

Come on guys, lets get this straight... AWAC and MESA are not at the same level. The reason AWAC is in this USAir boat is in the first place is because they told United to go pound sand when they wanted cheaper rates. Yes, some company will start flying the 190s, but at least in AWAC's case, it will not be for free.

 

[OPECJet]

We know AWAC and Mesa aren't in the same boat. I think everyone realizes that. If another contract carrier is going to be added, I'm dam glad its Air Willy.

Only reason I threw the name in there is with the addition, our ORF/PHF base is on the way out. We're looking at two base closures and or reductions at the same time. Personally, I can't figure out why CCY won't leave things as they are until after the merger. It couldn't be the last of the base shiftings.