Chautauqua to purchase Comair....

[DDpaysoff]

It doesn't matter whether two different unions are involved. The merger/acquisition language in the CBAs will guarantee an equitable solution. Part of an acquisition of one company by another is the understanding that the purchasing company will have to honor all existing contracts. They couldn't staple Comair even if they wanted to. If (and that's a big if) Comair is purchased by CHQ, then the two unions would get together to resolve the merger issues.

I think you are right. Now for the speculation. I would expect the two unions to work out some kind of DOH integration with major fences. This would be the easiest way to do it. All CRJ a/c flown by comair pilots all ERJ flown by Chautaqua pilots. Probably some kind of lock 2 years and if a pilot wanted to jump to the other side their seniority date at the new company would be the date of the aquistion. There is no way Comair will ever agree to a staple and there is no way a chautaqua pilot will ever be displaced by a comair pilot. This could work for both sides, at least that's my .02. Comair could actaully get some pretty decent growth due to the fact that there are a lot of available crj's and few erj's in the desert. Last I heard chautaqua needs some airplanes for this whole continental deal.

If Republic management were smart and based on their performance over the past few years they are: I would expect them to consolidate the fleets a bit, take the RJ's on delta's property and throw them in IAH, then replace the DAL erj flying with CRJ's in the desert on the comair certificate.

I went back and researched the balance sheets for RJET, SKYW, and MESA. IMO, the only airline to make a legitimate effort to boost cash and cash equivelants has been RJET. Now, SKYW has boosted those numbers, but their income has also increased since the ASA acquistion. Based soley on the balance sheets it looks like Chautaqua has been setting up to buy somone for some time now at least since the beginning of the oct. '05 quarter.

 

[Mike man]

I noticed that ASA and Skywest have not merged lists. Why the big hubub about something that is pure speculation?

 

[rtmcfi]

I really don't see SkyWest as being in the running for Comair. DAL still remembers what the strike did to them. As such, I really don't see them letting any carrier get too big. I doubt Delta would sell comair to SkyWest, even if SkyWest was offering twice what comair is worth.

 

[Sinca3]

I see this the most likely scenario for Comair, especially now that Fred is gone. Republic operates one a/c brand and needs to diversify its operational abilities to bid on all types of flying (this was the thorn in ASA/Skywest side for the CAL flying).
This would be the easiest and cheapest way into that possibilty. Brian Labrecque (ASA president) has mentioned this playing out for several months now as have others in the industry.
Should be intresting!

 

[NoR * CaL]

I swear, are people just cut & pasting the same speculations as when we at ASA got bought by Skywest and pasting in "CHQ/Comair"....déjà vu....

 

[surplus1]

wmu, the CMR pilots will eventually become teamsters, operating under the CHQ CBA, if this ever happens and will be integrated accordingly.

What makes you think that the REPH pilots won't eventually become ALPA instead?

 

[Yudso]

Part of an acquisition of one company by another is the understanding that the purchasing company will have to honor all existing contracts. They couldn't staple Comair even if they wanted to. If (and that's a big if) Comair is purchased by CHQ, then the two unions would get together to resolve the merger issues.

Tell that to all of the ex-TWA pilots.

 

[MELIT]

It's funny watchin all you morons speculate on how they're going to merge when nobody has even bought Comair yet.

 

[SuperKooter]

This is going to hurt ASA. If RAH buys comair there will be more growth for comair due to their lower wages. I hope the selfish creeps on the 70 realize that they are hurting the rest of their brothers and take a paycut.

 

[Willy21]

This is going to hurt ASA. If RAH buys comair there will be more growth for comair due to their lower wages. I hope the selfish creeps on the 70 realize that they are hurting the rest of their brothers and take a paycut.

Last time I looked there were more 50 seat pilots than 70 seat pilots. So to say the 70 seat guys are holding things up would be a stretch at best. Good try for your first post.

 

[Superpilot92]

well CHQ has over 1 billion in debt now why not make it 2 billion???

 

[SennaP1]

well CHQ has over 1 billion in debt now why not make it 2 billion???

Do you have a better idea?

 

[jaybird]

What makes you think that the REPH pilots won't eventually become ALPA instead?

It's been kicked around on the union boards and I don't think it will happen. What has ALPA done for you and the rest of the regional industry?

 

[propmonkey]

I thought Skywest was going to get Comair.

 

[FlyingDawg]

If RAH were to buy Comair the pilot seniority would probably be a relative position merge. Pilots would end up at the same relative position post merge as he/she was on their premerged seniority (If a pilot was 20% on the Comair list he would end up 20% on the merged list). This is much different than the Shuttle America merge because you have two very simular companies. The result of that decision is a must read and can provide valuable insight to a merger.

In addition the RAH contract does not allow pilots to swap equipment unless they move to a higher paying aircraft. So all captains would be stuck in the product they are flying unless they tranisition to larger aircraft. A fence is already in place because of this. FO's are stuck in equipment until they upgrade, at which time they could change certificates or aircraft.

 

[bvt1151]

If RAH were to buy Comair the pilot seniority would probably be a relative position merge. Pilots would end up at the same relative position post merge as he/she was on their premerged seniority (If a pilot was 20% on the Comair list he would end up 20% on the merged list). This is much different than the Shuttle America merge because you have two very simular companies. The result of that decision is a must read and can provide valuable insight to a merger.

In addition the RAH contract does not allow pilots to swap equipment unless they move to a higher paying aircraft. So all captains would be stuck in the product they are flying unless they tranisition to larger aircraft. A fence is already in place because of this. FO's are stuck in equipment until they upgrade, at which time they could change certificates or aircraft.

This is by far, the most equitable situation. I personally don't think its right for either pilot group to exploit a situation such as this to gain seniority. DOH is very good for Comair, and will hurt CHQ pilots. Shouldn't happen, won't happen. Obviously a stable is the other end the chest-thumping CHQ pilots will scream. Shouldn't happen, won't happen. The only equitable situation is fences, and a relative seniority merge like you mentioned. Any ties should go to Chautauqua, but I don't suspect you'll have too many of those. If, in fact, Comair merges with CHQ/RP, it could get nasty, but cooler heads will prevail and a truly fair merger will emerge.

 

[surplus1]

It's been kicked around on the union boards and I don't think it will happen.

When two companies with the same craft, represented by two different unions, get together, what happens is not what's "kicked around on the union boards", It's what's determined by law as administered by the NMB.

If one of the two unions substantially outnumbers the other, it automatically becomes the representative. When each of the two are close in number it forces an election; winner take all.

Perhaps you are unaware but there are established rules for such events. They are not opinions, they are laws.

What has ALPA done for you and the rest of the regional industry?

There's no question that ALPA has its faults. However, when it comes to rrepresenting airline pilots, there is no contest between ALPA and the IBT. ALPA wins hands down.

The Teamsters are a great labor union but their primary focus is not the representation of airline pilots, and it shows.

Note also - There are two different contracts. In the event of a merger, the CHQ contract will not simply replace the CMR contract and the CMR contract will not simply replace the CHQ contract. A reconciliation of the differences will have to be negotiated, between the pilots AND the Company. Eventually, a single contract will emerge.

In terms of contracts, although a few provisions of the CHQ contract would be desirable, the CMR pilots have a lot more to lose contractually. The quality of a CBA is not found only in pay tables; a fact that many "regional pilots" don't seem to grasp.

 

[Yudso]

This would not be a merger, it would be a buy out. If/When the two companies integrate, CMR pilots would be brought over to the Chautauqua seniority list and would then fall under the Chautauqua CBA.

 

[Ready2Fly]

When two companies with the same craft, represented by two different unions, get together, what happens is not what's "kicked around on the union boards", It's what's determined by law as administered by the NMB.

If one of the two unions substantially outnumbers the other, it automatically becomes the representative. When each of the two are close in number it forces an election; winner take all.

Perhaps you are unaware but there are established rules for such events. They are not opinions, they are laws.



There's no question that ALPA has its faults. However, when it comes to rrepresenting airline pilots, there is no contest between ALPA and the IBT. ALPA wins hands down.

The Teamsters are a great labor union but their primary focus is not the representation of airline pilots, and it shows.

Note also - There are two different contracts. In the event of a merger, the CHQ contract will not simply replace the CMR contract and the CMR contract will not simply replace the CHQ contract. A reconciliation of the differences will have to be negotiated, between the pilots AND the Company. Eventually, a single contract will emerge.

In terms of contracts, although a few provisions of the CHQ contract would be desirable, the CMR pilots have a lot more to lose contractually. The quality of a CBA is not found only in pay tables; a fact that many "regional pilots" don't seem to grasp.

Then why is ABX, which is teamsters, the highest paid airline pilots in the world?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Then why is ABX, which is teamsters, the highest paid airline pilots in the world?

Prove that please.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

This would not be a merger, it would be a buy out. If/When the two companies integrate, CMR pilots would be brought over to the Chautauqua seniority list and would then fall under the Chautauqua CBA.

Um, no, you are wrong. Way wrong. Go read up on the Allegheny/Mohawk LPP's, which would govern any merger between two airline labor groups (unless both are ALPA, in which case ALPA Merger Policy would apply).

-Neal

 

[BluDevAv8r]

It's been kicked around on the union boards and I don't think it will happen. What has ALPA done for you and the rest of the regional industry?

You might want to find out how sharp the Teamsters were with respect to filing their Section 6 notice to CHQ management a few years ago. Seems they made a big boo boo with that one way back when.

Also, I point you to the XJT contract...which was negotiated by XJT pilots and a ton of help and resources from ALPA.

What has the Teamsters done in the last few years besides represent GeauxJet?

-Neal

 

[surplus1]

This would not be a merger, it would be a buy out. If/When the two companies integrate, CMR pilots would be brought over to the Chautauqua seniority list and would then fall under the Chautauqua CBA.

You might want to sign up for some recurrent training on NMB rules.

 

[Ready2Fly]

Prove that please.

$239/hr. Name another airline higher than that?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

$239/hr. Name another airline higher than that?

One can't just look at the hourly rate. One also has to look at the monthly guarantee. Check out this below...

ABX $239/hour at 65 hours per month
FDX $206/hour at 74 hours per month

ABX is ahead of FDX by $291/month. However, FDX has a far more robust retirement. They also have far better work rules. W-2 is what counts at the end of the year...not simply the hourly rate. Lastly, FDX has been negotiating for a contract for 2 years. I'm sure when they do sign it will include retro pay.

-Neal

 

[Yudso]

You might want to sign up for some recurrent training on NMB rules.

I haven't been through initial, yet. Why don't you enlighten me?

 

[surplus1]

http://[URL="http://www.nmb.com"]www.nmb.com[/URL]

http://www.nmbfacts.com

http://www.nmb.gov/documents/rla.html

Try those three for starters.

 

[B727FA]

Since CHQ and Comair are seperate unions and since CHQ would BUY Comair, a buddy of mine and CHQ said that the overwhelming sentiment at CHQ is to staple the Comair list to the bottom of the CHQ list.

They can't.

 

[MELIT]

You bunch of pukes cant do anything about it so shut up and stop your cryin!

 

[jaybird]

Surplus, go ask the Mid Atlantic guys how their integration went. This will be nothing more than an aquisition of assets from Delta, not pilots.