Chautauqua TA vote

[nimtz]

>>>Don't give me this pre and post 9-11 bs.<<<

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Yeah, you're right, anyone who dares claim that what some were able to get pre-9/11, pre-recession, pre-mass layoffs is likely unobtainable now is slinging "bs".



Wake up, dude.

Yeah and CHQ is in such a desperate survival state that they had to take such drastic cost saving measures such as growing at rates not seen in before their history and adding new jets and customers. Yes, CHQ has 9/11 staring it right down and that is why a CHQ pilot doesn't deserve what a Comair pillot makes! I heard from an inside source that CHQ would be lucky to survive six months if their pilot group got paid Comair rates.



You try waking up and realizing that CHQ is doing just fine and that pilots doing mainline flying deserve better then 55 bucks an hour. Look at the numbers for once, we are starting to come out of the downturn right now. You sign off on a 5 year deal now, you will be getting peanuts while the company makes record profits, which go right to the pockets of management.

Why is everyone getting a hard-on about no junior manning, that's you're great deal breaker? Even in the tightests of times I got JM twice and it didn't tear me up cause I got 1.5X pay for it....

 

[exphojump]

A whole hearted thank you to Chautauqua pilots,

Your TA is a blessing. Why?

1. Comair/ASA pilots relax. You both are wholly owned. Your companies/divisions don't have the same costs that a subcontractor does. Skywest and Chautauqua must make cost plus 8- 12% margin to continue to finance aircraft. ACA is a static fleet. Comair/ASA are at cost. Your wages should darn well be higher to produce the same cost product.

2. UAL/USair Chapter 11 and the Mesa contract have been devasting to regional contracts/negotiations. Management has used these circumstances to beat down the leading contracts(ARW, ACA(still in negotiations), SKW). The Chautauqua TA is a reversal of that trend.

It's is not industry leading, but they make resonable advances in their QOL and stop the downward trend in rates. Because of their TA it makes it harder for ACAI management to wrangle concessions out of ACA pilots. If ACA pilots keep their RJ rates it will make it easier for Comair to keep theirs.

So, next time you see a Chautauqua pilot, pat him/her on the back and say thank you!

PS my main problems with TA are connected. By keeping the FO rates low they are in effect sticking it to the J4J pilots, there is some justice.

 

[captjim]

captjim,

Same class as MESA, are you for real? Grow some balls?, our pilot group has the big hairy ones.

If I ever hear you say we laid down like MESA I will stomp the sh_t out of you...I consider that a personal attack.

B

Yeah, ok, real grown up there kid.

Nimitz and McPickle, sumed it up perfactly. In 2 years your company is going to be making $40 million or more a quarter and you're going to asking yourself how in the hell did this happen?

The effects of 9-11 have passed and the economy is on a upswing. Now in the meantime you guys are voting in a contract that will be concessionary for the next 5 to 8 years! Once again you'll be the lowest paid Delta carrier. Once again your pilot group will miss the upswing in the economy and get another concessionary deal. Managment will all have their coffers filled and you'll be scraping by when inflation catches up. Then the growth will stop and the FO's will be in the right seat for 4 to 5 years. They will be able to look over at you and say, "thanks a lot buddy". Wake up!

If you guys want to take a deal like this shorten the lifespan of it.

 

[flyeveryday]

When is the vote?

Hi guys.
when is the TA vote and when will all the ballots be counted by?
Thanx

 

[Airpiraterob]

look everyone....i may not like your choices to vote 'no' and i may not like your anti-TA opinions....but i will defend to the death your CHOICE AND ABILITY to vote 'no' and have those 'opinions.' now with that said,

This is what i see from the sidelines

MONEY.

thats the only issue making people vote 'no'?
is that all there is? its a little shallow man. and thats not enough to make me vote no. if pay is the only thing i can complain about then its a pretty damm good job! its a regional job. everyone wnats mainline rates for mainline flying...GO TO MAINLINE! good luck with that. perhaps this 121 airline stuff just isnt for you if all youre gonna do is find something to complain about. do you love flying or do you love money?? theres worse jobs and the majority of flying jobs out there are absolutely disasters-in-waiting. been there, done that and compared to it ,this TA thing is heaven!...im happy to sacrifice 12k a year to start with this job. cause theres things that matter more than MONEY baby. its called a good solid job that dosent have a history of flying into trees when youre exhausted. if this TA had the ability to jr. man like crazy, wake me up at 3am with a scheduling change for next week or give me CDO's (stand-ups) on a 5 and 2 schedule for 81 weeks straight and no way out till death (my old job) .... then i would vote NO. (in this TA they can do 4 and 3 but guess what!?! i can bid off of it! and not do it all the time!! how bout them fukkin apples! i never had the choice before.)
give a pilot an inch and he'll ask for a lightyear.....or direct routing.

Make good choices in your life...if terrorists start flying into buildings again...theres nothing i can do about that now is there? so i need to make choices not in fear of the evil bad future. i have to trust that the future will be better. if it is better...then the ammendable sessions will take care of that 'money issue' (and thats 4 years from now, not 7)....its what the union wants to do anyway....to go for pay in that time. solid work and protection of our jobs now...pay when this contract proved to give them growth. thats where the moneysavings are going. huge growth. and well get ours when that happens.

what dont believe the union? dont trust them? dont trust anyone? big fan of coast-to-coast radio and the chemtrails website?.......c'mon people.

theres always someone out there that can make things work better than you can on less money. howcome youre spending more than they are and doing the same or less? figure out a way. whining is not it. trying to make the regional you work at a mainline from the f/o or Capt. seat wont do it either.

if you still choose to vote no....okay by me. its what you want to do. its what you want out of your future.

 

[nimtz]

look everyone....i may not like your choices to vote 'no' and i may not like your anti-TA opinions....but i will defend to the death your CHOICE AND ABILITY to vote 'no' and have those 'opinions.' now with that said,

This is what i see from the sidelines

MONEY.

thats the only issue making people vote 'no'?
is that all there is? its a little shallow man. and thats not enough to make me vote no. if pay is the only thing i can complain about then its a pretty damm good job! its a regional job. everyone wnats mainline rates for mainline flying...GO TO MAINLINE! good luck with that. perhaps this 121 airline stuff just isnt for you if all youre gonna do is find something to complain about. do you love flying or do you love money?? theres worse jobs and the majority of flying jobs out there are absolutely disasters-in-waiting. been there, done that and compared to it ,this TA thing is heaven!...im happy to sacrifice 12k a year to start with this job. cause theres things that matter more than MONEY baby. its called a good solid job that dosent have a history of flying into trees when youre exhausted. if this TA had the ability to jr. man like crazy, wake me up at 3am with a scheduling change for next week or give me CDO's (stand-ups) on a 5 and 2 schedule for 81 weeks straight and no way out till death (my old job) .... then i would vote NO. (in this TA they can do 4 and 3 but guess what!?! i can bid off of it! and not do it all the time!! how bout them fukkin apples! i never had the choice before.)
give a pilot an inch and he'll ask for a lightyear.....or direct routing.

Make good choices in your life...if terrorists start flying into buildings again...theres nothing i can do about that now is there? so i need to make choices not in fear of the evil bad future. i have to trust that the future will be better. if it is better...then the ammendable sessions will take care of that 'money issue' (and thats 4 years from now, not 7)....its what the union wants to do anyway....to go for pay in that time. solid work and protection of our jobs now...pay when this contract proved to give them growth. thats where the moneysavings are going. huge growth. and well get ours when that happens.

what dont believe the union? dont trust them? dont trust anyone? big fan of coast-to-coast radio and the chemtrails website?.......c'mon people.

theres always someone out there that can make things work better than you can on less money. howcome youre spending more than they are and doing the same or less? figure out a way. whining is not it. trying to make the regional you work at a mainline from the f/o or Capt. seat wont do it either.

if you still choose to vote no....okay by me. its what you want to do. its what you want out of your future.

Dude you are Johnny Orenstein's wet dream of an employee. I'm sure he'd like to hire you as special motivator to his pilot group at Mesa. Hey don't worry about pay now, it's all about being able to fly a shiny cool jet! Pay will take care of itself in the future, right!?! Managmement will want to take care of us because of the sacrifices we made to make this place secure, right!?! Man this 121 stuff is so fr*cking cool!!!

 

[Airpiraterob]

what the....

ok man all i did was provide my opinion. something rhetorrical to think about. and thats what people do. think abou tthings and decide for themselves....thats what i did and thats what you see here. have a problem with it? fine then have your problem. whats with you insulting me? i didnt tell you what you need to believe and do.

did i personally attack anyone?-NO
did i tell you what to think?-NO
did i say anything about goodie i get to fly a shiny cool jet?-FUK NO!

so why do you hava a problem with me? whats so under your skin that you have to INSULT ME! did i hit home or something?

i got no quarrel with you. i never did and havent yet....but you tried to associate me with MESA just now....thats about as LOW as anyone can get here. im struggling to forgive that. balls in your court tho.

are you actually trying to make something of this?

 

[Avi8tor2000]

The contract gets voted down and thats all the delay management needs to get Republic on its feet. That will be the end of Chautauqua plain and simple. Management wants nothing more than that to happen. There wouldn't be another TA even presented until Republic was flying our routes... What kind of leverage to get a Comair +any% do you think we would have then? Maybe the same leverage Mesa had when Freedom was up and running?

Yeah we could stirke, but not before release from the NMB which would take forever and then 30 days... What if Repulsive is flying before then?

 

[nimtz]

what the....

ok man all i did was provide my opinion. something rhetorrical to think about. and thats what people do. think abou tthings and decide for themselves....thats what i did and thats what you see here. have a problem with it? fine then have your problem. whats with you insulting me? i didnt tell you what you need to believe and do.

did i personally attack anyone?-NO
did i tell you what to think?-NO
did i say anything about goodie i get to fly a shiny cool jet?-FUK NO!

so why do you hava a problem with me? whats so under your skin that you have to INSULT ME! did i hit home or something?

i got no quarrel with you. i never did and havent yet....but you tried to associate me with MESA just now....thats about as LOW as anyone can get here. im struggling to forgive that. balls in your court tho.

are you actually trying to make something of this?

Dude chill, it's a message board not "pistols at dawn." I give up anyways. Everyone is totally convinced that since Mesa's contract came along we don't deserve Comair rates (which I still consider low), so we should be happy with 50K for captains and 23K for FO's regardless if we fly 37, 50, or 70 passegers.

Morale has been so beaten down that we'll be lucky to see any SIGNIFICANT gains at the regional level anytime soon. Guess not many of you have the motivation to go the extreme against mangaement that you would risk giving up your jet job in order to be treated/compensated appropiately. And in the end management will thank you for the extra money they stuff right in their pockets.

Watch this economy turn around and while the major airlines start to recover from their depression, we all be all left with pathetic pay/benefits for another 5+ years. Sad that none of us has shown the balls to do something like the UAL strike of 85, which prevented the prolification of B Scale. Well guys let's all get used to our own little C Scale.

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>perhaps this 121 airline stuff just isnt for you if all youre gonna do is find something to complain about<<<

Actually, I think this is a pre-requisite for being a 121 pilot. That and a predeliction for whining.

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

The contract gets voted down and thats all the delay management needs to get Republic on its feet. That will be the end of Chautauqua plain and simple. Management wants nothing more than that to happen. There wouldn't be another TA even presented until Republic was flying our routes... What kind of leverage to get a Comair +any% do you think we would have then? Maybe the same leverage Mesa had when Freedom was up and running?

Who cares? Are you going crawl into your fetal position every time management tries to do something that affects your job security. I'm sick of all you selfish pukes who only look at your own job security and not what is good for the profession. Let them try to start Republic, if they succeed (while CHQ is on strike)and thats a big if, I guess we will just have some more names to add to the scab list. It will make Delta, AMR and Airways real happy to cancel flights while republic trains all those scabs.

I also don't know if USAir mainline and ALPA will continue to support our fight against Republic;

I guarantee ALPA will continue their support. They have very little to gain by not. If they withdraw their support they will have thousands of members to answer to.

Yes, we've escaped Junion Manning, which is a big deal breaker for me

Why is this such a big deal to you? Until CHQ I have never had this in any of my contracts. Don't answer your f*ckin phone period. I only have had one airline that consistently tried too junior man me until my wife filed an harassment suite against them and then they quit.

Our sub-standard 401(k) plan basically matches ComAir's, and even exceeds it after year 6 (ComAir contributes 50% of 5%, or effectively 100% of 2.5%, throughout a pilot's tenure. After year 6 CHQ contributes 100% of 4%, and after year 13 it becomes 100% of 6%).

Yes so, Comair has a Defined contribution plan that is 100% funded by the company.

It's a building block.

I'm comfortable with that but how about an 18 to 30 month term with language requiring negotiations start 9 months prior to expiration. If it's a building block why can't we at least keep up with the Comair increases instead of falling further behind and end up being woefully underpaid at the end.

I think I'll go get a photocopy of my reject vote because I have a feeling that I'll need it in a year.

Dude chill, it's a message board not "pistols at dawn." I give up anyways. Everyone is totally convinced that since Mesa's contract came along we don't deserve Comair rates (which I still consider low), so we should be happy with 50K for captains and 23K for FO's regardless if we fly 37, 50, or 70 passegers.

Morale has been so beaten down that we'll be lucky to see any SIGNIFICANT gains at the regional level anytime soon. Guess not many of you have the motivation to go the extreme against mangaement that you would risk giving up your jet job in order to be treated/compensated appropiately. And in the end management will thank you for the extra money they stuff right in their pockets.

Watch this economy turn around and while the major airlines start to recover from their depression, we all be all left with pathetic pay/benefits for another 5+ years. Sad that none of us has shown the balls to do something like the UAL strike of 85, which prevented the prolification of B Scale. Well guys let's all get used to our own little C Scale.

My sentiments exactly. I don't run into many people willing to put their jobs on the line for the benefit of the profession. I've done it before and I'll do it again.

New contracts are suppose to bring you inline with your peers, this will put us much further behind in four years.

 

[Airpiraterob]

I.P. Freley:
heh heh....
just about.....

anyway nimitz: sorry for the outburst...just that word was mentioned....mesa...(shudder) in connection...

but yeah im ready to give up too before too much more of this. over on the majors board someone mentioned that they just wont go in here anymore....its too hostile....go figure eh?

i understand the comapny's logic in the mix. they know they are a transition step to a major and will treat every new pilot as a temp. Those that jump ship at the earliest major thats hiring.....you aint gettin nothin while youre here.....live through that phase and stay then you get paid. with the expansion planned, imagine how fast the upgrades will be initially till they stop growing. and how many of those will put in their time and jump ship as soon as possible for JB, SW, airtran, or whoever is hiring again?...certinly not a small percent. so while theyre new and present they dont get crap unless they stay...and are then compensated reasonably well.

i understand that side of it. dont like it? go to a major as soon as you can and then you dont have any more worries....right? its a start...its progress over the old one for sure. and theres more progress in 4 years.

 

[Russ Grizwalt]

c210drvr is that you billy bob?

 

[Avi8tor2000]

Ivan,

They won't junior man you on the phone, sport...it'll be a note right on the bottom of your dispatch release. You obvioulsy haven't worked for a company that really knew how to screw you. No harassment suit there, its all completely legal.

How is signing a short-term contract, which give us all pay raises, stops Republic, and gives us better work rules curling up into the fetal position? If you think you can do so much better why aren't you on the EC? I hope you are on it in four years to be our savior and give us every possible thing we want. And everything it sounds like every other airline out there wants for us.

Selfish? Every contract cannot beat every contract especially in this economy now, plain and simple. You can b!tch and moan all you want (and I'm sure you will) but its the way it is. Thats just not the way it works. Whats better for the industry? I need my job; it pays the bills. That does not mean I will work for nothing but on the same note it does not mean I will go out in a brilliant flash of glory to watch someone else do my job for less.

I'm done with you.

 

[surplus1]

I didn't know it was Comair or ASA's flying. I was under the impression it was DELTA"S FLYING.

I guess that means that you believe that Comair and ASA have no flying. (In which case, you have no flying either. It belongs to USAirways, American, Delta or United).

You should run for National Office at ALPA, they would love you.

Why were you so worried about Republic? Since the flying that Republic was going to do is all US Airways flying, why do you care if CHQ pilots have nothing to do with it?

The big problem with "impressions" is that far too many regional pilots have "impressions" created for them by mainline pilots, that the swallow hook, line and sinker. That is exactly why we have the mediocre contracts that we do.

 

[surplus1]

Please help me understand how people can compare contract negotiations pre- and post- 9/11. I really don't understand how that can reasonably be done. Comparing what we have to what Comair got 2 years ago is unrealistic.

If what you say is true, then consider this. Since it is "post 9/11" and you "can do no better" because of that, it follows logically that Comair is way out of line. If we extend your thinking just a little ...

Comair should give all the concession that it is asked to give, without question. After that, we should look at your new TA. If your pay and benefits are then higher than ours, we should lower ours, so that it is 20 to 30% below your TA.

After we've done that you will no longer be able to take any of our flying. Instead, WE will get all the new DCI flying and maybe even the part that you now have.

At that point, the "things that you've been hearing at CHQ" will be "happening at Comair" instead, and we will be "far better off in terms of growth and upgrade."

Now do you understand? It is easy to become the "lowest bidder" and it has nothing at all to do with 9/11. It has to do with wanting to grow so badly that you are willing to do it by "selling yourself on the streets" and taking from others whatever you can. Just remember, everyone can do that too.

Where will that leave us?

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

How is signing a short-term contract, which give us all pay raises, stops Republic, and gives us better work rules curling up into the fetal position?

How is a four year contract short? This will be the longest contract that I have worked under. Just keep fearing Republic and playing into managements hand.

They won't junior man you on the phone, sport...it'll be a note right on the bottom of your dispatch release. You obvioulsy haven't worked for a company that really knew how to screw you. No harassment suit there, its all completely legal.

Legal maybe but if you aren't smart enough to find a way to get out of it you are clueless. Anyone who gets junior manned and doesn't want to be just isn't using their noggin.

Good responses surplus. I just don't get some of these peep's logic.

 

[Cracker]

Jesus Christ people!

What a pissing match we got here! My contract's better than your's..neener neener neener!!

There are many more attributes to this contract that just pay and no Junior Manning. Does anyone realize that are health insurance coverage is better than Delta's? That goes for Comair as well.

Wellcare wasn't covered on our previous contract. Does anyone know what shots cost for children these days? Of course, shot programs vary from state to state, but the first set of shots our little girl had to get was over $300. That was just the first set! With 2 kids that will be even greater. Now taking into consideration 6 month shots, 12 month shots and 18 month shots, these cost will add up. (ps. I make too much as a 3rd year FO to qualify for free state shots).

Also, my wife has cysts in her breasts that have to be checked with a mammogram every 6 months. Mammograms were not covered on our previous contract...they are on the TA.

Our family also goes through prescription medication like it's PEZ candy. Our copay is 50% cheaper than Delta's.

Long story short...Improved health coverage was higher on my list than a Comair wage. And for clarification...it does not mean that I'm not worth it! As far as I'm concerned, I'm worth Delta 777 Captain pay. Besides, last I checked CHQ is only about 4 years old as a Regional Jet carrier. What was Comair's age again? But, you can easily argue both sides of that point.

I do understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm a full supporter of the freedom of speech, but for God sakes...we are not as big and as old(relatively speaking) as Comair. To expect to get what Comair has and has worked towards for the past 10 years is unrealistic. Now you can argue both sides, but come on people.

If we turn down this contract, no telling how long before it gets ratified and re-voted on. We are already 2 1/2 years behind on the last TA. We have greatly improved the QOL for CHQ...not Comair...not Eagle...not ACA...not anyone other than CHQ.

Rome wasn't built in a day, people. But only time will tell...with CHQ as well as any other of your airlines.

I did read the contract in its entirety and I did discuss every article for clarification. And for the record, my YES vote was sent in the day I received it.

 

[captjim]

Great reply Surplus, Ivan, these guys just don't get it.

Ivan, my hats off to you sir.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Cracker...

You sent out the ballot with a "yes" vote?

I was under the impression that the TA hadn't been officially presented to the pilot group for a vote yet, but if this is true then I am obviously mistaken.