Chautauqua TA vote

[Ivan Yankenoff]

The contract gets voted down and thats all the delay management needs to get Republic on its feet. That will be the end of Chautauqua plain and simple. Management wants nothing more than that to happen. There wouldn't be another TA even presented until Republic was flying our routes... What kind of leverage to get a Comair +any% do you think we would have then? Maybe the same leverage Mesa had when Freedom was up and running?

Who cares? Are you going crawl into your fetal position every time management tries to do something that affects your job security. I'm sick of all you selfish pukes who only look at your own job security and not what is good for the profession. Let them try to start Republic, if they succeed (while CHQ is on strike)and thats a big if, I guess we will just have some more names to add to the scab list. It will make Delta, AMR and Airways real happy to cancel flights while republic trains all those scabs.

I also don't know if USAir mainline and ALPA will continue to support our fight against Republic;

I guarantee ALPA will continue their support. They have very little to gain by not. If they withdraw their support they will have thousands of members to answer to.

Yes, we've escaped Junion Manning, which is a big deal breaker for me

Why is this such a big deal to you? Until CHQ I have never had this in any of my contracts. Don't answer your f*ckin phone period. I only have had one airline that consistently tried too junior man me until my wife filed an harassment suite against them and then they quit.

Our sub-standard 401(k) plan basically matches ComAir's, and even exceeds it after year 6 (ComAir contributes 50% of 5%, or effectively 100% of 2.5%, throughout a pilot's tenure. After year 6 CHQ contributes 100% of 4%, and after year 13 it becomes 100% of 6%).

Yes so, Comair has a Defined contribution plan that is 100% funded by the company.

It's a building block.

I'm comfortable with that but how about an 18 to 30 month term with language requiring negotiations start 9 months prior to expiration. If it's a building block why can't we at least keep up with the Comair increases instead of falling further behind and end up being woefully underpaid at the end.

I think I'll go get a photocopy of my reject vote because I have a feeling that I'll need it in a year.

Dude chill, it's a message board not "pistols at dawn." I give up anyways. Everyone is totally convinced that since Mesa's contract came along we don't deserve Comair rates (which I still consider low), so we should be happy with 50K for captains and 23K for FO's regardless if we fly 37, 50, or 70 passegers.

Morale has been so beaten down that we'll be lucky to see any SIGNIFICANT gains at the regional level anytime soon. Guess not many of you have the motivation to go the extreme against mangaement that you would risk giving up your jet job in order to be treated/compensated appropiately. And in the end management will thank you for the extra money they stuff right in their pockets.

Watch this economy turn around and while the major airlines start to recover from their depression, we all be all left with pathetic pay/benefits for another 5+ years. Sad that none of us has shown the balls to do something like the UAL strike of 85, which prevented the prolification of B Scale. Well guys let's all get used to our own little C Scale.

My sentiments exactly. I don't run into many people willing to put their jobs on the line for the benefit of the profession. I've done it before and I'll do it again.

New contracts are suppose to bring you inline with your peers, this will put us much further behind in four years.

 

[Airpiraterob]

I.P. Freley:
heh heh....
just about.....

anyway nimitz: sorry for the outburst...just that word was mentioned....mesa...(shudder) in connection...

but yeah im ready to give up too before too much more of this. over on the majors board someone mentioned that they just wont go in here anymore....its too hostile....go figure eh?

i understand the comapny's logic in the mix. they know they are a transition step to a major and will treat every new pilot as a temp. Those that jump ship at the earliest major thats hiring.....you aint gettin nothin while youre here.....live through that phase and stay then you get paid. with the expansion planned, imagine how fast the upgrades will be initially till they stop growing. and how many of those will put in their time and jump ship as soon as possible for JB, SW, airtran, or whoever is hiring again?...certinly not a small percent. so while theyre new and present they dont get crap unless they stay...and are then compensated reasonably well.

i understand that side of it. dont like it? go to a major as soon as you can and then you dont have any more worries....right? its a start...its progress over the old one for sure. and theres more progress in 4 years.

 

[Russ Grizwalt]

c210drvr is that you billy bob?

 

[Avi8tor2000]

Ivan,

They won't junior man you on the phone, sport...it'll be a note right on the bottom of your dispatch release. You obvioulsy haven't worked for a company that really knew how to screw you. No harassment suit there, its all completely legal.

How is signing a short-term contract, which give us all pay raises, stops Republic, and gives us better work rules curling up into the fetal position? If you think you can do so much better why aren't you on the EC? I hope you are on it in four years to be our savior and give us every possible thing we want. And everything it sounds like every other airline out there wants for us.

Selfish? Every contract cannot beat every contract especially in this economy now, plain and simple. You can b!tch and moan all you want (and I'm sure you will) but its the way it is. Thats just not the way it works. Whats better for the industry? I need my job; it pays the bills. That does not mean I will work for nothing but on the same note it does not mean I will go out in a brilliant flash of glory to watch someone else do my job for less.

I'm done with you.

 

[surplus1]

I didn't know it was Comair or ASA's flying. I was under the impression it was DELTA"S FLYING.

I guess that means that you believe that Comair and ASA have no flying. (In which case, you have no flying either. It belongs to USAirways, American, Delta or United).

You should run for National Office at ALPA, they would love you.

Why were you so worried about Republic? Since the flying that Republic was going to do is all US Airways flying, why do you care if CHQ pilots have nothing to do with it?

The big problem with "impressions" is that far too many regional pilots have "impressions" created for them by mainline pilots, that the swallow hook, line and sinker. That is exactly why we have the mediocre contracts that we do.

 

[surplus1]

Please help me understand how people can compare contract negotiations pre- and post- 9/11. I really don't understand how that can reasonably be done. Comparing what we have to what Comair got 2 years ago is unrealistic.

If what you say is true, then consider this. Since it is "post 9/11" and you "can do no better" because of that, it follows logically that Comair is way out of line. If we extend your thinking just a little ...

Comair should give all the concession that it is asked to give, without question. After that, we should look at your new TA. If your pay and benefits are then higher than ours, we should lower ours, so that it is 20 to 30% below your TA.

After we've done that you will no longer be able to take any of our flying. Instead, WE will get all the new DCI flying and maybe even the part that you now have.

At that point, the "things that you've been hearing at CHQ" will be "happening at Comair" instead, and we will be "far better off in terms of growth and upgrade."

Now do you understand? It is easy to become the "lowest bidder" and it has nothing at all to do with 9/11. It has to do with wanting to grow so badly that you are willing to do it by "selling yourself on the streets" and taking from others whatever you can. Just remember, everyone can do that too.

Where will that leave us?

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

How is signing a short-term contract, which give us all pay raises, stops Republic, and gives us better work rules curling up into the fetal position?

How is a four year contract short? This will be the longest contract that I have worked under. Just keep fearing Republic and playing into managements hand.

They won't junior man you on the phone, sport...it'll be a note right on the bottom of your dispatch release. You obvioulsy haven't worked for a company that really knew how to screw you. No harassment suit there, its all completely legal.

Legal maybe but if you aren't smart enough to find a way to get out of it you are clueless. Anyone who gets junior manned and doesn't want to be just isn't using their noggin.

Good responses surplus. I just don't get some of these peep's logic.

 

[Cracker]

Jesus Christ people!

What a pissing match we got here! My contract's better than your's..neener neener neener!!

There are many more attributes to this contract that just pay and no Junior Manning. Does anyone realize that are health insurance coverage is better than Delta's? That goes for Comair as well.

Wellcare wasn't covered on our previous contract. Does anyone know what shots cost for children these days? Of course, shot programs vary from state to state, but the first set of shots our little girl had to get was over $300. That was just the first set! With 2 kids that will be even greater. Now taking into consideration 6 month shots, 12 month shots and 18 month shots, these cost will add up. (ps. I make too much as a 3rd year FO to qualify for free state shots).

Also, my wife has cysts in her breasts that have to be checked with a mammogram every 6 months. Mammograms were not covered on our previous contract...they are on the TA.

Our family also goes through prescription medication like it's PEZ candy. Our copay is 50% cheaper than Delta's.

Long story short...Improved health coverage was higher on my list than a Comair wage. And for clarification...it does not mean that I'm not worth it! As far as I'm concerned, I'm worth Delta 777 Captain pay. Besides, last I checked CHQ is only about 4 years old as a Regional Jet carrier. What was Comair's age again? But, you can easily argue both sides of that point.

I do understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm a full supporter of the freedom of speech, but for God sakes...we are not as big and as old(relatively speaking) as Comair. To expect to get what Comair has and has worked towards for the past 10 years is unrealistic. Now you can argue both sides, but come on people.

If we turn down this contract, no telling how long before it gets ratified and re-voted on. We are already 2 1/2 years behind on the last TA. We have greatly improved the QOL for CHQ...not Comair...not Eagle...not ACA...not anyone other than CHQ.

Rome wasn't built in a day, people. But only time will tell...with CHQ as well as any other of your airlines.

I did read the contract in its entirety and I did discuss every article for clarification. And for the record, my YES vote was sent in the day I received it.

 

[captjim]

Great reply Surplus, Ivan, these guys just don't get it.

Ivan, my hats off to you sir.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Cracker...

You sent out the ballot with a "yes" vote?

I was under the impression that the TA hadn't been officially presented to the pilot group for a vote yet, but if this is true then I am obviously mistaken.

 

[Cracker]

Just received it in the mail 2 days ago...everyone should be get theirs as well.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Ah. Well. That settles it.

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

Cracker---

Just keep rationalizing why you don't deserve the best and whola you will get it. I hear JO is looking for someone to come up with some new innovative ways to say that pilots are overpaid.

Health Care?-- I thought every pilot married a nurse or a teacher. Seems to me that they have the best insurance in the world.

What does a carrier age have to do with it? Does a unionized plumber get paid less if he works for a company that just started? Hell no. Same work equals same pay. I would say the CHQ guys work harder than Comair because they have to know all the differences of each mainline carrier.

If I brought up some of these lame excuse to some of my family and friends who work in the trades I would be laughed out of the room. Say what you want about the trades, but my brother makes a hell of a lot more money than me and he has never been unemployed.

 

[I.P. Freley]

If you don't know the difference between "the trades" and the airlines, then noone will likely have to explain the difference to you.

Furthermore, like it or not, how many contracts a carrier has does in fact have an effect upon how good those contracts are. First ones are rarely good, later ones get progressively better.

But, since you are such a keen industry observer, you already knew that... Looks like you just want to fight.

And... "Whola" (took me six or seven reads to assume that you meant "voila"), looks like you got one.

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

Furthermore, like it or not, how many contracts a carrier has does in fact have an effect upon how good those contracts are. First ones are rarely good, later ones get progressively better.

Ask a United, American or Air Whisky pilot how good their contract is. Seems to me they have been negotiating contracts for a few years and look what they have now. More the reason to get every last dime you can when you can.

I guess hook phonics didn't work for me.