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Chautauqua Gulity or not

fms direct

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You Make the Call: Gulity or not

>>>>All of the information below was obtained by Chautauqua IPO filimgs with the SEC<<<<<<<


1.02 Service
(e) Contractor may operate its feeder air service as an ABR(another name for Chautauqua) only as directed in writing by AA. Pursuant to the terms of this Agreement, AA hereby consents to Contractor's operation as an ABR carrier with respect to such router and frequency of service designated by AA in writing

1.02
(g)AA shall be responsible for schedule production for Contractor's air service flights and inputs of such schedules into AA's scheduling system. However, AA may delegate certain of those fuctions and responsibilities to a third party or by mutual agreement with contractor . Such schedule changes will be included in the information sent to the oag

3.03
Inventory Control: AA shall estblish and maintain all inventory and seat allocation on flights operated by contractor pursuant to this agreement. AA may at its discretion delegate this responsibility to a third party or to contractor, subject to contractor's concurrence to perform such duties for the time period requested by AA

Article 5-
Other Activities:
(f) AA reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to fincance the option aircraft and become the Lessor of such aircraft to Contractor under the terms of a lease.

Exhibit A-Feeder Airports
1(c) AA shall designate which approved aircraft type will be operated to and from feeder airports and STL hub
1(d) AA shall schedule the approved aircraft to maintain average daily scheduled utilization within the minimum and maximum parameters noted on (*)
1(e) AA shall schedule the approved aircraft in an efficent manner at the hub and feeder airport
1(f) AA shal have the discretion to change the frequency and deployment of feeder air service flights between the hub and feeder airports provided reasonable notice, as defined in section 2 below is given to contractor.

Exhibit C
a(1) As directed by AA and subject to certain labor contract Restrictions. Contractor will utilize Embrear regional jet aircraft, types 145 and 140,(erj) configured in AMERICAN EAGLE specifications(including but not limited to airframe,powerplant,cabin interior,exterior trade dress, avionics, and the like) and Saab 340 (sf3) turbo prop aircraft configured with not less than (*) each aircraft shall be equipped with(*) unless otherwise directed by AA all ERJ aircraft operated by contractor will be the 140 lr version, although AA may at its discretion change from the 140 lr version to the 145 lr version. AA will give contractor timely notice of such change. both parties agree that the use of ERJ type 145 will require a separate schedule of block hour and passenger stipend charges.

a(2) Other regional jet and turbo-prop aircraft types may be used subject to AA prior approval and corresponding amendment to this agreement as appropriate

3.Aircraft interior and exterior specification
AA shall direct cintactor regarding the exterior trade dress and interior fabric and color selection process of all aircraft contractor operates under this agreement to ensure consisteny with AA's or AE's product Appearance

Exhibit F
1(b) AA and contractor have agreed to establish the local depository bank accounts managed and overseen by AA

8. AAAccounts
a) AA shall maintain such books of accounts and records as shall be necessary to perform the foregoing accounting and settlement services, which books of accounts and records will be available at reasonable times upon reasonable prior notice for inspection by contractor or its designated representatives.
b) AA will use the same degree of care and will apply the same standards and safeguards for the accounting and settlement services provided hereunder as AA uses for its own accounting services.

2. Technology Interface
AA agrees to provide the necessary support to ensure dynamic tranfer of OPERATIONAL data directly to contractor's system OPERATIONAL CONTROL center in INDIANAPOLIS

After reading all of this, Ask yourself does AA(AMR) have OPERATIONAL CONTROL over CHAUTAUQUA AIRLINES. And then all you have to do is replace Chautauqua name with Trans States and then you know the rest of the story.....




:eek: :eek:
 

FlyinBrian

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It sure is interesting to see it spelled out like that. I don't know how anyone can possibly think that AA does not have operational control over all American Connection flights.
 

Bluestreak

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FAR's

Well,let's see what FAR Part 1,Definitions and abbreviations says:

"Operational Control,with respect to a flight,means the exercise of authority over initiating,conducting or terminating a flight."

FAR 121.533(a) spells it out in no uncertain terms:

"(a) Each certificate holder conducting domestic operations is responsible for operational control."

So,it is the certificate holder,in this case CHQ,that has operational control.If an CHQ American Connection flight has to cancel because of mx,do they call AMR or CHQ ? Paint jobs and carpet and seat fabric do not bestow operational control on the specifying party.Were these aircraft operated as a wet lease under AMR's certificate,it would be no contest.
 

Cleared Direct

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Re: Dork

Bluestreak said:
Well,let's see what FAR Part 1,Definitions and abbreviations says:

BrownStreak,

Who cares what the FAR's say about operational control of an airline? The scope clause in American Eagle's contract does not say operational control as defined by the FAR's. It simply says operational control. We are not talking about an official FAA document, we are talking about a business contract dork.

None of the American Connection carriers would even take a dump with out first asking AMR.
 
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jetexas

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Regulations or not, arbitrators go by the 'intent' or 'spirit' of the contracts they arbitrate. AMR has clearly and knowingly bypassed the 'intent' of Eagle's contract which was meant to stop the whipsaw. You can find your way around 'wording' all day long. Its a lot harder to find your way around 'intent'. We shall see...
 
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Draginass

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AMR is trying different strategies. Could be that they are trying to make it a "fait acompli" where the unions will feel it's better to acquiece on ASM limits than fight. Could be they plan on dragging out the legal fight as long as possible and reap the benefits as long as they can.

TSA and CHQ better not plan on enjoying AMR's association too long and ALPA better get their ducks in line and figure out how they are going to advise their various councils to address it.
 

fms direct

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CONTRACT

the reason I posted the information about CHQ was for ALL to see how AMR is saying one thing and doing another.

They(AMR) said that they are looking at everything in order to save money well we all know that AMR does not care about employee, and that is one thing that can sink a ship faster then anything out there.
 

jetexas

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fms direct

You are correct. In my opinion, the best way to 'save' money would be to 'spend' some money on the employees. A happy employee will go out of his/her way to save the company money. A demoralized employee could care less about saving the company money. When you have tens of thousands of demoralized employees, this can all add up!
You have to give to get!
 

Bluestreak

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Re: Re: Dork

Cleared Direct said:


BrownStreak,

Who cares what the FAR's say about operational control of an airline? The scope clause in American Eagle's contract does not say operational control as defined by the FAR's. It simply says operational control. We are not talking about an official FAA document, we are talking about a business contract dork.

None of the American Connection carriers would even take a dump with out first asking AMR.

Ah,spoken like a true Hitler Youth.Sorry that's not what you wanted to hear-sucks for ya,dude.
 

airjackson

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Dork??

Cleared Direct, I have valued your usually intelligent comments on some of the other boards. However, this time you've come off like a true kook. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to frustration.
 

ifly4food

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Cleared direct,

Did CHQ need AMR's permission to begin whoring themselves out for Delta Connection? How does that fit into your "operational control" definition? Seems to me like only CHQ controls CHQ.
 

laxembfo

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Right on

fms direct,

Hit it right on CHQ and AMR are in bed together and there adding more and more roommates eash and every day. I's time to STOP this and stand up for what's RIGHT. Doesn't anybody have any MORALS. :confused:
 

eaglefly

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I can't wait to see AMR take the next step (inevitable). Giving more Eagle aircraft to parasitic "alter-ego" carriers and routing them thru current Eagle hubs on current Eagle city pairs. Then no one will dispute their intentions (except maybe Bluestreak). Regardless of how many pseudo-lawyers THINK they know the real meaning of "operational control" as it pertains to Eagle's (or any) LABOR AGREEMENT, the only opinion that will count is the arbitrators.

BTW Bluestreak, do you work for CHQ or TSA. No way you work for ACA. ;)
 
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FlyinBrian

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Ah,spoken like a true Hitler Youth.Sorry that's not what you wanted to hear-sucks for ya,dude.

It's not that he didn't want to hear it, it's that the FAR definition is not applicable to contract diputes. Nobody is accusing AMR or anyone else of violating an FAR. The definintions in Section 1 only apply to terms as they are used in the FAR's and have no relevance outside of the FAR's.

Did CHQ need AMR's permission to begin whoring themselves out for Delta Connection? How does that fit into your "operational control" definition? Seems to me like only CHQ controls CHQ.

AMR does not have operational control over all of CHQ, only the American Connection flights. Do you think CHQ really is really in control of that operation? If so, take a look at the original post. Anybody who is at all familiar with the history of Eagle's contract knows that American Connection is a clear violation of the contract's intent. To argue otherwise is just plain ignorant.
 

TSA Pilot

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Your argument doesn't hold water. If I come out to my plane, board all the passengers and can't start the number 2 engine for whatever reason or the weather has socked in the destination with no forecast for improvement. My Dispatcher or Flight control is going to cancel the flight and send all the Pax on another one. They are not going to get on the phone to AMR and say "hey listen we don't have a plane for the DTW trip or the weathers too bad, can we cancel??? " no they might call the director of OUR operations but thats where the operational control lies with us not with AMR
 
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FlyinBrian

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You're relying on the FAR definition of operational control which does not apply.

AMR tells you when, where, and how your flights will fly, what equipment you will fly and how it will be configured, who will board your planes, and all manner of other things. Face it, they control your operation. Just because you can cancel flights does not mean that you have operational control in the broad context that it is used in Eagle's contract.

As I said before, anyone who contends that American Connection flying does not violate the intent of Eagle's contract is clueless about Eagle's agreement and the history behind it.
 

MartinFierro

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It all hinges on what one considers "operational control." TSA pilot is correct if you view operational control on that level, but not the big picture. However, if you view it also/or as the ability to control where the aircraft is flown to, the time schedule, how it is used, if it has dual FMS, ACARS (as opposed to TSAs other RJs), that too is "operational control," at least in terms of our contract. However you or I views this, it doesn't really matter. It only matter what the arbitrator thinks.
 
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