Chautaqua/Republic info

[Corbon]

Shootpublic? That seems to be a bit of a reach for an "insult" but whatever. I'm astonished to hear that my company is making aviation history and single-handedly "destroying a once proud profession." Of course let's not blame ALPA, who allowed the RJ's and E-jets to be flown at the regional level initially (Thanks for that by the way. Now I get to sit at the regionals for probably a really long time, wheeeeee!). Don't blame US Airways, who furloughed many, cut pensions, rewrote your contract, slashed your pay, and now is selling your airplanes to RAH.
Yeah, we're the problem.

 

[h25b]

Yes, that is exactly what we believe the contract says pal. the arbitator will have the final say. Maybe we will lose and you can gloat and be happy knowing your company helped put another 1000 people out of work. I sure hope the senior at Riddle enjoys his quick upgrade time. In the meantime the pilots at the division are standing tall and trying to enforce our contract to stop the outsourcing that is destroying the piloting profession. and if we lose good luck to us all as we will all need it. Dont believe me look at CMR, and NW for the latest examples.

ALL or NONE!!!

Bla, bla, bla... You guys have always been one battle behind the times, check out what OldManPilot is talking about... Either way the arbitrator comes out, you're hosed...

How Republic has become your enemy is anyone's guess. You have no one to thank other than ALPA for your mess. By the way, thanks for scoping out jets to the regionals.. That was a good call. Of course though, your type loves to forget about that sly move. Again, one battle behind the times...

 

[I.P. Freley]

Don't blame US Airways, who furloughed many, cut pensions, rewrote your contract, slashed your pay, and now is selling your airplanes to RAH.
Yeah, we're the problem.

Seems like just the most recent example of pointing fingers at the wrong people...

ExpressJet people have pointed fingers at CommutAir and Colgan for "stealing their flying", not Continental, who farmed out the flying.

ComAir and (formerly) ASA have pointed fingers at Chautauqua, TSA and Mesa for "stealing their flying", not Delta, who farmed out the flying.

American Eagle has pointed fingers at TSA and CHQ for "stealing their flying", not at American Airlines, who farmed out the flying.

In a bit of a stretch, Air Wis and (formerly) ACA had pointed fingers at Mesa, TSA, Shuttle America, CHQ and others for "stealing their flying", when they were themselves contractors for United Airlines, who farmed out the flying.

PDT, ALG, PSA and (soon to be formerly) MDA have pointed fingers at CommutAir, Colgan, Mesa, Shuttle America, TSA, Air Midwest (among many more) for "stealing their flying", not USAirways, who farmed out the flying.

Here's what I see of fr8master and Pocket Ace's argument: It's not ALPA's myopic view of the small jets, the decades of mismanagement at USAirways is not the problem, nor is their emerging from bankruptcy before they were truly ready, nor is the competition on the east coast that has battered them half to death, nor is it the economy, nor is it the price of fuel, nor is it a generally mediocre product from a passenger standpoint when on mainline aircraft... it's Chautauqua's fault. Republic should take ALL the pilots when they aren't even buying a company, just airplanes, and somehow give them BETTER terms than the CURRENT pilots at the company... And if they don't, then it's REPUBLIC'S fault for "putting 1000 people out of work". Now THAT is just plain weird...

Go ahead... go to an arbitrator. Ask the guys and gals at Shuttle America's prop side how that worked out...

 

[FR8mastr]

I really wish some of you guys would actually read whats going on here rather than read some snippet from a board member and then decide the whole thing without any further thought

OLD Man pilot You sir are wrong, if the division pilots win all they keep ALPA as the bargaining agent and recall. I know "you heard" but you are mis informed. If we partially lose in some kind of comprimise you might be correct but only the Arbitrator can make that call.

IP have you not noticed the Billion dollar lawsuit against all the parties in which you claim we dont blame? I guess not.

and yes IP we will ask the arbitator, what do you expect us to do, just keep bending over and taking it?

 

[jaybird]

IP have you not noticed the Billion dollar lawsuit against all the parties in which you claim we dont blame? I guess not.

You can sue anyone for anything. I think I might sue you for being such an idiot.

 

[I.P. Freley]

IP have you not noticed the Billion dollar lawsuit against all the parties in which you claim we dont blame? I guess not.

and yes IP we will ask the arbitator, what do you expect us to do, just keep bending over and taking it?

Nope, I don't know anything about your billion dollar lawsuit. Please enlighten me.

And my point about the arbitration is that you may end up in the same lovely situation as the SA people. Probably worse.

 

[91100 100 set]

LearLove must be out on a trip, it's been 20-some-odd hours and he hasn't contributed.

 

[pocket aces]

I really wish some of you guys would actually read whats going on here rather than read some snippet from a board member and then decide the whole thing without any further thought

OLD Man pilot You sir are wrong, if the division pilots win all they keep ALPA as the bargaining agent and recall. I know "you heard" but you are mis informed. If we partially lose in some kind of comprimise you might be correct but only the Arbitrator can make that call.

IP have you not noticed the Billion dollar lawsuit against all the parties in which you claim we dont blame? I guess not.

and yes IP we will ask the arbitator, what do you expect us to do, just keep bending over and taking it?

This is comical, these guys have no clue what is going on.

 

[pocket aces]

Go read the 15 page thread on USAviation.com and maybe you guys can put all this together.

 

[jetfo]

Chautauqua QOL/QOT

The training contract and shared hotel rooms I believe are standard for new hires at CHQ.

Pretty pathetic contract guys.

Shared hotel rooms?!? What is this, summer camp?

How cheap can you get?

Or do they just want the new crewmembers to get well aquainted.

They must really want you to study together.

I guess IBT doesn't do too well in contract negotiations.

Even Mesa provides single occupancy rooms.


Do they continue this practice on the line?

And a training contract for qualified 121 pilots!

They must really be worried about people leaving. Maybe there is a reason for that. I used to think Chautauqua was a decent place to work. Now I wonder. This doesn't speak well for them.

 

[jetfo]

When is the arbitrator going to rule?

And FR8mastr. How is keeping ALPA as your bargaining agent going to work on an IBT property with a merged seniority list.

By the way, if you MDA guys win, will that cancel the asset sale and MDA revert to US Airways?

 

[Millls22]

I have an interview comin up with Chatauqua, got some questions. Does anyone know if they pay for training?? Also I have enough time to go to the 170, I want to be based at ORD, is that gonna be possible..If so how long is reserve lasting there, or just on the 170 in general??

 

[I.P. Freley]

This is comical, these guys have no clue what is going on.

What's truly comical is that many of us really don't really give a hoot, we're just rolling our eyes at the very, VERY tired arguments and attacks ("you're destroying the profession", "repugnet", etc.). Same attacks, different pilot group.

Instead of directing us to threads on other boards, why don't you just tell us the specifics of this lawsuit? The Reader's Digest version will do.

While you're at it, explain how taking ALL the MDA pilots and giving them seniority that even pilots at companies acquired through a paper shuffle within the Wexford empire aren't due (according to an arbitrator), is something good for the current RAH pilots? Is it your stance that the MDA pilots are all going to be gone within two years and therefore THAT is good for the RAH pilots? Just trying to figure out what it is that you're suggesting. This does nothing good for them in the near term... Company growth with airplanes that they wouldn't have any chance of flying anytime soon hardly sounds like a good deal. I also don't get how a staple means ANYTHING to you and your compatriots if you're protected on the USAirways flying anyway, with noone else doing it, and you'll all be gone in practically no time by your estimation.

I don't know the specifics of what is going on with the USAirways/America West thing, but I am surprised to hear any suggestion that the 1500+ existing furloughed pilots at USAir would be recalled "within two years". Is this the plan?

 

[StarChecker]

The IBT had every opportunity to give a fair integration to the MDA pilots. Your selfish group offered us this.....

- 50% of the current position staffed at MDA
- A Staple of all pilots
- PayCut of about $5/hr for all positions
- Sign a 2 year enforcable 15,000 training contract......... for pilots that have more time in the 170 than any one in the world (exactly whos training who)
- Shared hotel rooms for those in training.

If you want to call that a welcome I dont want you on my jumpseat either! you are getting 28 additional aircraft, with additional growth in your company. And the the 250 pilots will gladly return to mainline when thier number is called (probably within 2 years). you all can take that offer and shove it up your collective cans.....its ALL or NONE!!!!!!!

I didn't realize protecting one's seniority list was selfish...but whatever.

And a fair integration? You guys have to be an airline for that to happen. Until then...we bought some airplanes...end of story.

As for the rest of your list of complaints...how is any CHQ pilot responsible for those things? How does any of our pilot group deserve to be denied a jumpseat? Or be prevented from getting to our aircraft in PHL so delays get called on Republic crews. That's rreeeal nice.

The J4J guys we have here now are class acts and we're a better company with them here. Having spoken to a few of them...they are embarrassed and disgusted at your behavior.


Be pissed...but be pissed at the right people. Not some guy who's trying to go home.

 

[flyinglow]

I think it would be a great irony if Wexford decided to cash out and sold out to an ALPA carrier. Then the ALPA group would really put it to the Shitpublic group.

 

[jaybird]

I think it would be a great irony if Wexford decided to cash out and sold out to an ALPA carrier. Then the ALPA group would really put it to the shootpublic group.

Oooooooooo. I bet you want that so bad. I hate to burst your bubble, but Wexford is no longer the majority share holder.

Oh yeah, ALPA is so bad ass these days too.

 

[FlyinPiker]

I think it would be a great irony if Wexford decided to cash out and sold out to an ALPA carrier. Then the ALPA group would really put it to the shootpublic group.

Just a tip. The "shootpublic" rips really make you sound like a tard .....you have to change it to shi.ttypublic. Your being edited by "the man".

In other news......I don't see what the big deal is. CHQ pilots are defending themselves. Are they wrong to do it?? He.ll no!!!!!!!

Wouldn't you?

MDA guys are fighting for the most they can get after being left out in the cold by various groups. Are they wrong to do it? He.ll no!!!

Wouldn't you?

Somebody's going to get boned out of all of this. I don't see any reason for either of these two groups to just sit there and let it happen.

Good luck to the both of you.

 

[NDM]

I want to say a few things and discuss possible outcomes. First of all, this if first hand information. If ALPA does not by chance win this arbitration against USAirways then J4J will have precedence. If they win then the following will probably occur:

The IBT contract states that all mergers and/or acquisitions will be handled per the RLA and Allegheny/Mohawk LPP's. This includes a referendum and vote upon Union Representation. The Union Representation decision (I believe) is the first in a series of things to take place. After representation, contract amalgamation and seniority integration would take place. The previous two paragraphs apply provided that ALPA/MAA are successful in their greivance against USAirways.

Those are the facts, now lets look at the rationale provided ALPA wins the greivance.

The CHQ/REP/S5 seniority list has 1400 pilots. MAA has approx. 300 pilots. A vote would occur combining those two groups for 1700 pilots voting on whether the IBT or ALPA would become the representing Union.

After this the Allegheny/Mohawk provision would be put in place. The Seniority Integration committee from CHQ (the combined seniority list of CHQ/REP/S5 is still called the Chautauqua Pilots' System Seniority List)would meet with their counterparts from MAA in the effort of Negotiating a Combined seniority list. Should this become a stalemate then both parties would select a neutral arbitrator using a strike off method.

The arbitrator would then decide a "fair and equitable" integration.

Back in May we (IBT) tried to have a discussion with ALPA regarding this transaction:

I was part of the contigent that was to negotiate with ALPA. We initially offered ALPA 100% of the jobs which comes with the MAA aircraft. The next 25 airplanes were to be staffed of of the CHQ list until the 50% ratio was reached under J4J. We approached ALPA. Our IBT representatives met with Bill Pollock. This included our attorney Gene Sowell and EC Chairman Gordon Moore.

AAA MEC Chairman Pollock responded to our offer saying they wanted in-base 1 for 1 integration a la PSA. However, they would only insist on 50% of the jobs per J4J for the first 25 airplanes provided they got in-base integration.

Our Committee responded by a counter-proposal which included our former AND pay longevity. ALPA responded by asking for straight MAA DOH.

We felt that at that time ALPA continuously tried to avoid the provisions which agreed to in J4J which was voted on by their membership. In order to change those allowances under our IBT contract a vote would have to be sent out. Anything which would change the IBT contract MUST be voted on by its membership. We felt we did not have the support of our pilot group to change our contract to allow in-base seniority integration or straight DOH.

It was at this time that ALPA threatened us with the greivance against USAirways. Using that tone we backed away from negotiations. Our job is to look out for the best interests of our pilot group (CHQ) and this is what we did.

Now saying all of this I do feel for the MAA plight. At no time during the negotiations with AAA ALPA was a MAA representative (pilot) present. The IBT was not sinister toward MAA and OFFERED 100% of the jobs to the current MAA pilots. I have said this on another thread. Someone reputted those facts but never backed them up with the evidence he said he would provide and the thread died. I have no reason to hide or lie and I post my name behind what I say.

Now, we hope that as many MAA guys as possible will come over. We will welcome them and I think they will be a great addition to our pilot group. Their experience in this industry and aircraft will enhance all of us. I am hoping we can help them as well (probably help them stand back up from being bent over for so long).

I know a few of the MAA pilots have been led into believing the IBT blew off MAA. I am here to tell you that is definitely not true. I have no reason to lie. It really does not make a difference at this point.

I am the Former Strike CHairman and Pilot Rep, yet I have been called a scab numerous times in the past couple of months. If you are venting, please re-read this and consider who you should be venting too.

Ladies and Gentlemen from MAA good luck. I hope a year from now this is all behind us.

Sincerely,

Dan Sneddon

 

[jetfo]

I want to say a few things and discuss possible outcomes. First of all, this if first hand information. If ALPA does not by chance win this arbitration against USAirways then J4J will have precedence. If they win then the following will probably occur:

The IBT contract states that all mergers and/or acquisitions will be handled per the RLA and Allegheny/Mohawk LPP's. This includes a referendum and vote upon Union Representation. The Union Representation decision (I believe) is the first in a series of things to take place. After representation, contract amalgamation and seniority integration would take place. The previous two paragraphs apply provided that ALPA/MAA are successful in their greivance against USAirways.

Those are the facts, now lets look at the rationale provided ALPA wins the greivance.

The CHQ/REP/S5 seniority list has 1400 pilots. MAA has approx. 300 pilots. A vote would occur combining those two groups for 1700 pilots voting on whether the IBT or ALPA would become the representing Union.

After this the Allegheny/Mohawk provision would be put in place. The Seniority Integration committee from CHQ (the combined seniority list of CHQ/REP/S5 is still called the Chautauqua Pilots' System Seniority List)would meet with their counterparts from MAA in the effort of Negotiating a Combined seniority list. Should this become a stalemate then both parties would select a neutral arbitrator using a strike off method.

The arbitrator would then decide a "fair and equitable" integration.

Back in May we (IBT) tried to have a discussion with ALPA regarding this transaction:

I was part of the contigent that was to negotiate with ALPA. We initially offered ALPA 100% of the jobs which comes with the MAA aircraft. The next 25 airplanes were to be staffed of of the CHQ list until the 50% ratio was reached under J4J. We approached ALPA. Our IBT representatives met with Bill Pollock. This included our attorney Gene Sowell and EC Chairman Gordon Moore.

AAA MEC Chairman Pollock responded to our offer saying they wanted in-base 1 for 1 integration a la PSA. However, they would only insist on 50% of the jobs per J4J for the first 25 airplanes provided they got in-base integration.

Our Committee responded by a counter-proposal which included our former AND pay longevity. ALPA responded by asking for straight MAA DOH.

We felt that at that time ALPA continuously tried to avoid the provisions which agreed to in J4J which was voted on by their membership. In order to change those allowances under our IBT contract a vote would have to be sent out. Anything which would change the IBT contract MUST be voted on by its membership. We felt we did not have the support of our pilot group to change our contract to allow in-base seniority integration or straight DOH.

It was at this time that ALPA threatened us with the greivance against USAirways. Using that tone we backed away from negotiations. Our job is to look out for the best interests of our pilot group (CHQ) and this is what we did.

Now saying all of this I do feel for the MAA plight. At no time during the negotiations with AAA ALPA was a MAA representative (pilot) present. The IBT was not sinister toward MAA and OFFERED 100% of the jobs to the current MAA pilots. I have said this on another thread. Someone reputted those facts but never backed them up with the evidence he said he would provide and the thread died. I have no reason to hide or lie and I post my name behind what I say.

Now, we hope that as many MAA guys as possible will come over. We will welcome them and I think they will be a great addition to our pilot group. Their experience in this industry and aircraft will enhance all of us. I am hoping we can help them as well (probably help them stand back up from being bent over for so long).

I know a few of the MAA pilots have been led into believing the IBT blew off MAA. I am here to tell you that is definitely not true. I have no reason to lie. It really does not make a difference at this point.

I am the Former Strike CHairman and Pilot Rep, yet I have been called a scab numerous times in the past couple of months. If you are venting, please re-read this and consider who you should be venting too.

Ladies and Gentlemen from MAA good luck. I hope a year from now this is all behind us.

Sincerely,

Dan Sneddon

So Dan, what do you realistically think will happen?

The MDA guys I have talked to are ademant about not coming over to CHQ and certainly not IBT. They will certainly never give up recall rights.

They believe that they will prevail and this deal will fall apart and the 170's will revert to US Airways.

 

[NDM]

Realistically? Who knows. Could be in either direction. J4J or Integration. Nobody knows how arbitration is going to turn out.

However, we have taken delivery of 2 more 170's from MAA, and a 3rd will be next week. We will have 6 aircraft on property flying for USAirways by November 9. We will be taking delivery of 2 aircraft per month until all have been delivered.

All I know is that we must stay professional towards all pilots involved.

Dan

 

[flyingmoose1]

poof

somewhat off..however, I have one thing to say..when you all mighty veterens of the distinguished any name mainline fleets were trying to get a job how did you get it? I tend to think some of you clicked your heals and POOF you appeared in the right seat of a 737. I find some of you to be ridiculous and some what childish. You know what? Man I wish when I started a few years back in my little industry killing jet, that I too could go from seminole, baron whatever into a mainline fleet. What oh wizard and only pro pilot do you suggest? Lets see, have you thought or even investigated in the past five years what it takes to get hired to a mainline jet?
I dont like the fact that I really have little hope in getting that seat with a mainline because of the glut and turmoil your leaders have created. I love to fly, it pains me to see the guys and gals I looked up to years ago accusing me of killing the industry. Guess I should quit and go build my time in a corporate jet, oops they want time in their particular a/c.
I am a Captain, I am proud of my occupation, I am an individual that if in a crowded public area would probably be the only pilot. You are an aviator, start being one. Yeah you got more time crapping in the first class lav than I got total time but hey, I am trying.
I suggest you give talks to flight schools be they academy or Billy Bobs flight training center, You let this kids know how to go from prop to 737 etc.
Spend your time helping them out instead of trashing many of these fine folks trying to get where you are.
Ever ask a regional pilot what they want to do, bet you get the same response...I want to go to work for <insert mainline fleet here>. Yup that sums up what I want to do. SO I tell you what I will sit in my left seat 6 feet above the ground and continue to look up at you, and wonder how do I get where he or she is, man that would be what I have always wanted.
I will continue to endure your inane remarks about the next batch of aviators because I know your angry, and dissappointed. Do you honestly think I am out to get you, do you think at all? Are you so mad that you have closed down and are waiting to crush anything that you see as a threat?
Keep your nose up in a turn, basic rule of being an aviator.
P.S. Thanks SNEDS cya in the smoke room.