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Change is in the air at XOJET...

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t-bone said:
No idea dude. Ask Blake. I don't see how we are overstaffed either, unless there are plans to take planes out of the rotation for interior refurbishment. The "overstaffed" idea comes from way above my pay grade.
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If they don't all come from the 300 it won't be by seniority.

The X FO beat down, will it ever cease?
 
BushwickBill said:
If they don't all come from the 300 it won't be by seniority.

The X FO beat down, will it ever cease?
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Where are you finding your seniority list? Looking on our pilot portal, I count 3 Citation FOs in the bottom 15. 2 are in the bottom 10. Point me in the right direction if you know of a more accurate list.
 
t-bone said:
Where are you finding your seniority list? Looking on our pilot portal, I count 3 Citation FOs in the bottom 15. 2 are in the bottom 10. Point me in the right direction if you know of a more accurate list.
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OK not ALL, 12 of 15 and my question remains: How this be done by seniority without retraining X FOs for the 300?

Will we dole out more on types to be fair? I doubt it... This won't be done by seniority but what do the captains care about a few X FOs that don't matter.

They are just walking pin cushions anyway... Carry on. Guys with families will lose their jobs so guys can pay for 100LL to go to their third house paid for by a retirement job.

Good times!
 
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BushwickBill said:
If the 10-15 come from the 300 how will XOJET staff the fleet?

How will this address the problem the hawker street captains created - a 63% captain ratio on the X and a 64% ratio on the 300?

This represents nearly 10 captains too many = 400k overpaid = the reason guys with families are losing jobs.
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Pilot pay does not and never has determined whether a company furloughs. It's strictly a numbers game concerned entirely with staffing existing airframes. Yes, XO seems to have too many captains. Very few pilot groups would complain about that. Sounds like you're in the line of fire and are are trying to justify keeping your job. That's understandable, but I don't agree downgrading captains would help you at all. Would you be happier if XO downgraded 10 percent of the captains and then still furloughed the bottom 10-15 FO's?

As for your nonsense about senior guys with multiple houses etc., you've got to be kidding me. Furloughs should be done in seniority order, and it's not up to you to decide when anyone else should retire. Sorry to hear it if you are on the potential furlough list. The good news is you will have recall rights, and XO still plans to increase fleet size as demand warrants.

The Hawkers were a terrible idea in every way. That's entirely why this is happening not because XOJET has too many Captains.
 
X-rated said:
Pilot pay does not and never has determined whether a company furloughs. It's strictly a numbers game concerned entirely with staffing existing airframes. Yes, XO seems to have too many captains. Very few pilot groups would complain about that. Sounds like you're in the line of fire and are are trying to justify keeping your job. That's understandable, but I don't agree downgrading captains would help you at all. Would you be happier if XO downgraded 10 percent of the captains and then still furloughed the bottom 10-15 FO's?

As for your nonsense about senior guys with multiple houses etc., you've got to be kidding me. Furloughs should be done in seniority order, and it's not up to you to decide when anyone else should retire. Sorry to hear it if you are on the potential furlough list. The good news is you will have recall rights, and XO still plans to increase fleet size as demand warrants.

The Hawkers were a terrible idea in every way. That's entirely why this is happening not because XOJET has too many Captains.
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You assume too much. Although based on your screen name I'm guessing you were part of the "best pilot group in the world" as those with delusions of grandure keep referring to themselves. Every man for himself, I can understand why you assume that. You were once part of this awful morass of horrible people out to screw everyone and everything to crawl up the decks of hell ship as she slips quietly below the waves. Recall rights! Now that is fresh. What leads you to believe there will be anything left to return to? This is a manufactured crisis. I saw this coming last November. I see the doors closing in a few short years.

I get a kick how t-bone swears this reduction will happen by seniority even though it is not operationally possible. I actually care about people below me on the "list". The Hawkers are why there are too many captains. In the eyes of the bean counters we are overpaid. Yet the numbers game announcement does not add up, as t-bone so astutely points out. Mark my words next winter will be pure misery. We will be understaffed.

As for me 50% could go and I would still be here. Surprised? I actually care about people coping with a job loss. A rare quality in this horrible "profession". I think it is ridiculous that a young pilot with a family should hit the street while someone in their late 60's plays pilot for fun. It would be nice to see a little "humble pie" thrown around the 24 captains below me on the list rather than lose good people. Downgrades will come regardless of what I think.

Of course I could leave with my head held high knowing that I've helped people out and never benefitted from another's loss. Like I said I enjoy sleeping at night. I'm not sure how the majority of X captains do considering how they treat people.
 
BushwickBill said:
You assume too much. Although based on your screen name I'm guessing you were part of the "best pilot group in the world" as those with delusions of grandure keep referring to themselves. Every man for himself, I can understand why you assume that. You were once part of this awful morass of horrible people out to screw everyone and everything to crawl up the decks of hell ship as she slips quietly below the waves. Recall rights! Now that is fresh. What leads you to believe there will be anything left to return to? This is a manufactured crisis. I saw this coming last November. I see the doors closing in a few short years.

I get a kick how t-bone swears this reduction will happen by seniority even though it is not operationally possible. I actually care about people below me on the "list". The Hawkers are why there are too many captains. In the eyes of the bean counters we are overpaid. Yet the numbers game announcement does not add up, as t-bone so astutely points out. Mark my words next winter will be pure misery. We will be understaffed.

As for me 50% could go and I would still be here. Surprised? I actually care about people coping with a job loss. A rare quality in this horrible "profession". I think it is ridiculous that a young pilot with a family should hit the street while someone in their late 60's plays pilot for fun. It would be nice to see a little "humble pie" thrown around the 24 captains below me on the list rather than lose good people. Downgrades will come regardless of what I think.

Of course I could leave with my head held high knowing that I've helped people out and never benefitted from another's loss. Like I said I enjoy sleeping at night. I'm not sure how the majority of X captains do considering how they treat people.
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You're completely full of siht. If you care so much, why don't you take the voluntary separation money and save an F.O? Or, do you only care enough to complain that someone else wont give up their job? Hypocrite! Everyone is gutted about XOJET pilots losing their jobs, but it's not up to you to say when someone else has enjoyed enough and shouldn't be able to work any longer. But hey, by all means, keep up the self-righteous indignation and bitch about other people while you continue to do precisely nothing to help them either.

Your CEO and D.O. have said the furlough will be in reverse seniority order, but apparently that's not good enough for you. Do you think you're the only one who can figure out how many junior people are in the CL300?

As for your other predictions, only time will tell. However, I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. The Hawkers going away was a smart move. The company should have furloughed the day they parked them, but they didn't. They retired 7 airframes and ultimately only 10-15 pilots will be furloughed. That seems like a pretty reasonable deal to me all things considered.
 
X-rated said:
You're completely full of siht. If you care so much, why don't you take the voluntary separation money and save an F.O? Or, do you only care enough to complain that someone else wont give up their job? Hypocrite! Everyone is gutted about XOJET pilots losing their jobs, but it's not up to you to say when someone else has enjoyed enough and shouldn't be able to work any longer. But hey, by all means, keep up the self-righteous indignation and bitch about other people while you continue to do precisely nothing to help them either.

Your CEO and D.O. have said the furlough will be in reverse seniority order, but apparently that's not good enough for you. Do you think you're the only one who can figure out how many junior people are in the CL300?

As for your other predictions, only time will tell. However, I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. The Hawkers going away was a smart move. The company should have furloughed the day they parked them, but they didn't. They retired 7 airframes and ultimately only 10-15 pilots will be furloughed. That seems like a pretty reasonable deal to me all things considered.
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How do you know I haven't applied for the payout? I said that there would be forloughs last year, and here we are. No clue eh? You are correct about one thing: time will tell.

Oh, and since when has MGMT followed though with claims? LOL.
 
We barely have enough X guys\gals as it is now. The 300 fleet is just barely correctly staffed. There are also going to be reductions in the office as well.
 
Furloughing at XOJet? That sucks!!!! Well, on a positive note, many airlines are starting to ramp-up hiring if the furloughs are interested.... I just read that a few furloughed CS pilots got on with Spirit recently.

Good luck to all those impacted!
 
Sorry to hear. But you guys should be in better shape if the 121's start hiring soon. A lot of the NJA furloughees are 3+ years out of a cockpit.

Good luck to everyone.
 
propsarebest said:
DO NOT QUOTE ME ON THIS, but I have heard that the HS125 guys are being thrown back to the right seat. Just a rumor.
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Well, a lot of rumors in our building have proven to be completely wrong as of late.

I don't have a good grip on the fleet transferred Hawker captains' DOH vs "original" X/300 folks who have upgraded in the last year or so (they few upgrades we've had lately). If this rumor is true, would that mean the downgrades were done out of reversed seniority?
 
flyzimex said:
Well, a lot of rumors in our building have proven to be completely wrong as of late.

I don't have a good grip on the fleet transferred Hawker captains' DOH vs "original" X/300 folks who have upgraded in the last year or so (they few upgrades we've had lately). If this rumor is true, would that mean the downgrades were done out of reversed seniority?
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The Hawker street Captains jumped half the seniority list when they were hired and they are all still pretty darn junior. I doubt there are any Captains Jr. to the Hawker street Captains. That's not to say more senior guys were not upgraded after the Street Captains were hired, but DOH rules not time in seat. I've heard it has been an ongoing bone of contention amongst the pilot group especially since the Hawkers were retired, and as much as I don't like to see anyone downgraded, this at least sets that wrong right. I wonder if they will re-upgrade by seniority order or get to jump the line again when upgrades resume?
 
Guess I should have been more clear with my question. Know that I'm luckily not personally affected by any of this.

I fully agree with what the company did with the Hawker guys being upgraded over many of our senior, and deserving, FOs was wrong. In other words, as much as it sucks for any potentially affected Hawker guy this would set things straight again should this rumor be true. My stand has never been against the Hawker guys themselves, the company created that mess, but they were awarded something they should never have been given in the first place if all was done strictly by DOH.

Obviously with no union on property the company can do as they please, right or wrong. Fortunately it appears with our new leadership common and logical sense has entered the equation again.

Hopefully we'll know more by tomorrow.
 
No doubt about it. It wasn't the Hawker guys fault at all, and I have nothing against any of them.

Also, it's a difficult situation when you add a new fleet to an Argus Platinum operator. They have rules about crew pairings and time in type, so it's not so simple. Some street Captains are necessary at the beginning if you don't have experienced guys willing to move to the new fleet. XO just hired too many of them because they wanted to get all the planes on line at the same time. The problem was compounded when the fleet was retired in such a short time period. Like I've said before, It was a poorly thought out decision to bring on those old airplanes, and the outcome was predictable.
 
propsarebest said:
We barely have enough X guys\gals as it is now. The 300 fleet is just barely correctly staffed. There are also going to be reductions in the office as well.
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Exactly... As soon as they can't cover surge I think changes will have to be made. Hopefully they won't be losing anymore aircraft.
 
No surge crews UFN. If you happen to be ferrying a plane to MX, be prepared to airline to another MX base as soon as you drop off the first one.
 
propsarebest said:
No surge crews UFN. If you happen to be ferrying a plane to MX, be prepared to airline to another MX base as soon as you drop off the first one.
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I was put on surge for tomorrow on my "duty on day". Unfortunately not home surge, but in TEB via a one stop airlining. :(
 
el raton said:
Any truth to the rumor that XO has been or is in the process of being sold?
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Nothing that we've been told. Anybody that claims to have heard from a "reliable source" needs to question the credibility of that source. Anybody in the know would likely have had to sign a non-disclosure agreement. If it happens, we aren't likely to hear anything until after the fact.

TPG has had their money tied up in us for awhile now, much longer than is typical for them, so I'm sure they would entertain any reasonable offer.
 

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