Chances of getting on with a Major....

[Whine Lover]

Sorry.

Anyone who is in line for a Doctorate has learned to spell and/or form sentences.

"I have a question regaurding my future."

"...provided I continue to shell out thousands of dollars to work through my ratings ang forego the PhD program..."

"...I'm trying to rationalize of shelling out $30-40 on flight training, and the furthest I can go is to a regional or small cargo carrier."

"... Thanks in advance for the responces."

Who's this guy trying to fool?


WL

 

[mrtoy2]

I was that little 5 year old with his nose up against the window in the terminal staring in wonder at the plane waiting to take my grandparents to Florida every year. (notice that I didn't say: staring at the military fighter jets). Some of us actually love flying and have wanted to be an airline pilot all their lives. Not everyone is into the type of flying the fighters do in the military. I personally take pride and a perverse pleasure delivering my pax to their destination safely. Is it a job? Yes with benefits. Is it really flying? Sometimes yes but mostly no. Real flying is in airplanes without the aide of computers IMHO. The 757 that I flew up until earlier this year pretty much did everything for me including landing if I didn't feel like it. (always found reasons not to do autolands though) I would agree that this is not flying but only managing the computers on a very sophisticated bus. Someday I too would like to own my own airplane. Because that type of flying is rewarding as well. You will NEVER be able to fly with your young son at the controls in a fighter. If you love both your science career and your flying career, do both. Become a test pilot for Boeing so you can make sure those fighters do what there supposed to do...make fighter pilots' egos bigger! :Q

 

[FN FAL]

If you love both your science career and your flying career, do both. Become a test pilot for Boeing so you can make sure those fighters do what there supposed to do...make fighter pilots' egos bigger! :Q

Really? DARPA's dream is to build autonomy into combat technology...future fighter pilots will doing what we are doing right now, typing on keyboards in an airconditioned room.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

The same guys that think driving a Toyota Corolla is "really fun" are the same guys bragging about flying 121. The military affords even the basic flight "trainee" with a broader range of the flight envelope of an aircraft than any civilian school. I don't believe there is any argument here. It is what it is.

Some will be quick to accuse me of having an "attitude" of superiority for pointing out the "facts". All I am saying is that once you have experienced the performance capability of "afterburning" aircraft, you will not be so thrilled with the offerings of the civilian market ... just a fact. My point is that I don't get the "love" thing about flying 121. If you wanted to race Indie cars ... why go the tractor pull route? Everyone knows how to get around the "vision" thing ... so that''s not an excuse. 121 flying, by regulation, limits itself to the "heart of the center" of the flight envelope. Without sounding condescending, if that's all you've experienced, I can see how you might mistake it for "excitement". Given a different background, with high performance experience, you too might come to the same "arrogant" conclusion. They haven't made an "RV-whatever" yet that comes remotely close to blowing any wind up my skirt. I get more of a thrill at the local go-cart track than I do in a 767 ... and every former military guy will say the same ... though all the civilian guys will accuse us of being arrogant.

So ... this 121 stuff is simply a job ... not a particularly exciting or fulfilling one, but a financially rewarding one given my limited mental prowess and my proclivity to maximizing my time with my family. Working reserve at UPS (3-4 days/month) is about as good as an "airline" job gets. For "thrills" ... I'll chase Mrs. BBB around the house and make those dive-bombing sounds as I seek the "target" (gawd ... what a nauseating thought ... sorry everyone!)

Just another poor slob trying to get by ...

YMMV,

BBB

 

[waitinginline]

First, I would like to say I realize I do not post much at all. But, I have been a reader for quite some time and find the conversation very interesting.

However, I was really disturbed by a message that FATAS@ posted earlier.

You Sir, know who you are, and you might just be part of the problem....This is a quote from this bonehead and I am not so computer savy so I'll just paste it here and if your interested you can go backwards to determine just how fat this guy is!!!!

"I could give a rat's fanny about your "love" ... you need to put food on the table, save for retirement, and pay for your kid's college education ... as an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM!"

I, perhaps come from a different upbringing and believe that if want to go to school after high school it's on you. I did just that! I was enlisted in the Navy and later branch transfered to the Army. Anyway, after much work and heartache of my own, before I knew it I had a B.S.

I guess my point here is your not responsible for your kids after 18. Yes, it is great to teach your kids that at 18 they are on their own. Let them think that, and keep your reserve college money close-by and if required throw in the LIFE SAVER and help-em out. My point, hopefully is a lessoned learned.

But, I will not raise my kids thinking that they have their college paid for. You have at some point to give them incentive and let them reach for it.. Even though its taken care of...

 

[BluDevAv8r]

The same guys that think driving a Toyota Corolla is "really fun" are the same guys bragging about flying 121. The military affords even the basic flight "trainee" with a broader range of the flight envelope of an aircraft than any civilian school. I don't believe there is any argument here. It is what it is.

I don't necessarily disagree. But aside from your 110 hours in the 38, how much time down in the weeds at 500 kts were you doing in your 141? Of course, you could have been an IP in the 38...

Everyone knows how to get around the "vision" thing ... so that''s not an excuse.

Had the 121 FS, DCANG (F-16's) lone UPT slot in 1999 for a FY00 UPT start date. Got ding'd for having a very minor red/green color deficiency in my eyes. Flight doc was unwilling to go for a waiver. After more research, the only way to get through this issue was to memorize the color plates and misrepresent myself to the military. No thanks. I'm a big fan of karma.

121 flying, by regulation, limits itself to the "heart of the center" of the flight envelope. Without sounding condescending, if that's all you've experienced, I can see how you might mistake it for "excitement".

I think you are misunderstanding "excitement" with a love for one's career. People don't have to find 121 flying "exciting" to enjoy it or to find it rewarding/satisfying. What was so "exciting" about flying that 141 around the globe?

-Neal

PS - I don't find 121 flying "exciting" either. I'm not even sure I find it "rewarding" most of the time. But some do...don't fault them or snub your nose at them for that.

 

[CoolHands]

Thanks Neil! Good post.

 

[banned username 1]

Wait a minute-

You guys are making it far too complex.

If you have to ask the question, you've already got your answer. This business is just far too flaky to be weighing it against something else. I've seen people with great career paths throw them away and chase a career in aviation-with checkered results.

It's a journey and not an end-game decision. There are too many uncontrollables in aviation to assure a happy outcome as opposed to your engineering path that is fairly predictable-not the least of which are the recurring physicals.

If it's a means to an end- don't choose aviation.

If you have a viable alternate career plan, sooner or later you'll be kicking yourself and asking why you chose aviation as you try to stay awake flying checks around in the middle of the night in a C-402.

Regardless of the path that all career pilots took, they all have one thing in common- they thought that what they were doing at the time (with the occasional exceptions) was pretty cool. The nice job at the end was the carrot. No promises about that carrot, then or now- especially now. Choose aviation and you'd better love it to do what is going to be necessary to make yourself competitive with your peers.

Good luck

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I agree with UAL78. I too was the kid in the terminal with his nose pressed up against the glass. I had the opportunity to fly for a couple of regionals, an LCC, and a major. The lack of long-term job security has made me into the biggest, "Chicken little" I know.

There is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Rent an airplane on the weekends. Enjoy the $100 hamburger.

 

[capt. megadeth]

I guess my point here is your not responsible for your kids after 18. Yes, it is great to teach your kids that at 18 they are on their own. Let them think that, and keep your reserve college money close-by and if required throw in the LIFE SAVER and help-em out. My point, hopefully is a lessoned learned.

But, I will not raise my kids thinking that they have their college paid for. You have at some point to give them incentive and let them reach for it.. Even though its taken care of...

Yeah, I don't get this one, but then again I don't have kids. I took out loans to pay for college, they can too.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I don't necessarily disagree. But aside from your 110 hours in the 38, how much time down in the weeds at 500 kts were you doing in your 141? Of course, you could have been an IP in the 38...

1600+ hours in the T-38 as an IP. As far as what was "so exciting" about flying the 141? ... Can't say I was very "excited" in general, though it had its moments ... chose it to simply get the hours for the airlines and see the world.

I thought air -refueling a 141 was an exciting/challenging maneuver, however. A 4-ship of 141's on a multi-ship tanker package ... a lot of funky aerodynamics at play under the tanker (holding left yoke to "slide" to the right due to tanker wingtip vortices, approach the tanker too fast and your bow wave will lift the tanker's tail ... he compensates, you compensate, potentially dangerous PIO's between aircraft, etc...). AR was often done at night, in the weather (turbulence, leans, visual illusions to fight) with contact times (personally) as long as 40 minutes (100,000+ lb offloads).

"Tactical" approaches (gear down/partial flap) at 20,000' into Mogadishu. The thought of some idiot shooting at you from the ground was motivating for me. That airplane is operated to numerous extremely "austere" locations around the planet ... to fields that don't "officially" exist (in foreign countries) to support agencies that will deny sending you should you become embroiled in "local" trouble. No radar vectors to an ILS final was more the norm than the exception ... "if" an approach existed ... it was a "temporary" NDB signal to get you below the weather till you picked up the "smudgepots" which outlined the "runway" that didn't exist. The 141 was routinely operated into McMurdo (Antarctica) ... the "special ops" guys flew the snot out of the thing in support of their mission (very low altitude, night-vision goggle, cargo drops).

So ... on the surface, 141 flying sounds boring. Like I said before though, it had its moments and it was a tough workhorse ... not particularly pretty or fast ... but dependable and built like a DC-8.

I am still having trouble with the whole "love" of flying thing though ... I could see it perhaps in a small aircraft in a beautiful wide open environment (Montana for instance) ... but 121 conjures up nothing of the sort in my mind. Instead, I think of ungrateful and irritating passengers, endless security hassles, a litany of rules and regulations, an industry in decline, long hours droning along in an aluminum tube being exposed to radiation. It beats digging ditches, for sure ... but "love" or "passion" for 121 flying? I'll keep looking ... but after doing it for years ... fighting with UPS over a new contract for going on 32 months now ... witnessing friend's take pay cuts and watch their pension promises evaporate ... reading the almost "affectionate" posts toward SCABS some write here ... I'd say I've become jaded a bit and see this merely as a paycheck.

As always ... YMMV,

BBB

 

[Big Beer Belly]

duplicate removed

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I, perhaps come from a different upbringing and believe that if want to go to school after high school it's on you.

With the popularity of 529 plans, Coverdell Education IRA's, and the myriad other assortment of college savings vehicles I'd say your opinion is in the minority. The world is tough today ... much more competition for high paying jobs than when I was growing up. I believe it is MY responsibility to give my kids a leg up on that competition.

In many parts of CA ... our children will be unable to afford a home in the neighborhood in which they grew up. (Million dollar track homes are the norm in many coastal locations.) It wasn't this way when I graduated from college. At that time I was able to purchase a home on Air Force pay ... no way is that possible today. Times are changing my friend, and I believe it is MY responsibility as a parent to equip my children with the educational skills they will REQUIRE to succeed in today's world. Doing less, IMO, is akin to kicking the chick out of the nest before it can fly.

BBB

 

[PAPA FOX!]

With the popularity of 529 plans, Coverdell Education IRA's, and the myriad other assortment of college savings vehicles I'd say your opinion is in the minority. The world is tough today ... much more competition for high paying jobs than when I was growing up. I believe it is MY responsibility to give my kids a leg up on that competition.

In many parts of CA ... our children will be unable to afford a home in the neighborhood in which they grew up. (Million dollar track homes are the norm in many coastal locations.) It wasn't this way when I graduated from college. At that time I was able to purchase a home on Air Force pay ... no way is that possible today. Times are changing my friend, and I believe it is MY responsibility as a parent to equip my children with the educational skills they will REQUIRE to succeed in today's world. Doing less, IMO, is akin to kicking the chick out of the nest before it can fly.

BBB

Very well said Big Beer Belly.

 

[jbDC9]

Some will be quick to accuse me of having an "attitude" of superiority for pointing out the "facts". All I am saying is that once you have experienced the performance capability of "afterburning" aircraft, you will not be so thrilled with the offerings of the civilian market ... just a fact.

It's a fact for you, not everyone. You keep mentioning not understanding the "love" for 121 flying, then in the same paragraph you slam private flying in an RV. Last time I checked, RVs are not operated under Part 121. Didja stop to think that 121 flying, because it is fairly boring, is the reason why so many airline types are building/flying RVs? To get back to the basics, the pure fun and joy of flight; that's why I'm building one. No FMC, EFIS or autopilot, just a fun little airplane. Do you just not like flying in general? Perhaps you should get a real job outside of aviation and go play golf and hang out at the country club every weekend...

Everyone knows how to get around the "vision" thing ... so that''s not an excuse.

This statement right here just makes you sound like an arrogant ass. Nice.