CFI's: Don't think of the job as just a timebuilder

[MTpilot]

I don't know, high school could be fun.........

I love instructing, I worked hard to get here and I like flying airplanes. If your in it for the money, go back to selling insurance or whatever, hell, I used to break rock all day, I've had all sorts of crappy jobs. I like to fly and that is the key, the money will work out eventually.

 

[Clutch_Cargo]

Well, I started to chime in on this subject about 8 hrs ago when my computer crashed... ^%$#^%!! Anyway, just my opinion but...

I love how people with thousands of hours tell other pilots that they need to be the best CFIs they can be.

You should be the best CFI you can be... it is what being a professional is about and it's something you owe to both your students and your fellow aviators. You can provide quality instruction and still build time. If the only good you can find in instructing is the time-building aspect, you should do something else... there are other ways to build time. I told all my CFI students that and more than one decided to do the right thing and find another way to get time. When I was still actively instructing, 1500 TT didn't get you far. Unless you were doing PFT at a regional, towing banners, or dropping jumpers, you were most likely still instructing... you needed to get in the right frame of mind to do it. No complaints, that's just the way things were at that time. Just me, but I liked instructing. It only sucked because you were at the airport 14 hrs a day, 6 days a week, just to make pauper's wage. That brings me to another thing...

Good Grief! Where did you work? I was just going over some old tax returns- I made $40,480 in my last twelve months of instructing. I worked 6 days/week. What's with the Chunky soup? My students were always buying me lunch, just like I did for my instructors. I thought it was a tradition?

Holy Crap HMR! Where did you work?! I don't think I ever made more than $16k a year as an instructor and I felt pretty fortunate... bought Ramen by the crate at Sam's Club! Good on ya for being able to get that - it's what instructors should get - but I think most would say you were in the minority!

 

[minitour]

It's like looking back on your High School days, sure the memories are all rosey now but I don't think there are very many people that would actually want to go through High School again. You always remeber the good parts and forget the bad, it's human nature.

I would!

I'd LOVE to go back to HS and do it all over again. Hind sight being 20-20, I'd do EVERYTHING different...actually I'd love to go back to about 4th grade and start over from there.

.....but then again I like pizza rolls and applesauce too

-mini

 

[Goose Egg]

Great posts by MT and Clutch...

I love instructing, I worked hard to get here and I like flying airplanes. If your in it for the money, go back to selling insurance or whatever... I've had all sorts of crappy jobs. I like to fly and that is the key, the money will work out eventually.

I could have written the same thing.

...you needed to get in the right frame of mind to do it...

I absolutely agree. I'm instructing because I love flying. I'm happy because I love flying. Sort of reminds me of a lot of conversations that I've had with my skiing friends. Most of them talk about just saying "screw it" and just getting some ski area job so that they can ski all the time. Skiing is what makes them happy, and they are happy because they are skiing. It's part of what they are. And none of them complain about not making enough because they are doing what they love. They are just glad that they can live and do what they love.

It's the same with CFIin', or at least it should be. But instead we have instructors who constantly bitch because they aren't compensated like rock stars. Personally I'm just glad that I can do what I love, fly, and someday make enough to buy a house. News flash for y'all: If you can't be happy now, you won't be happy later. Flyin' the line will suck too, because there will always be something to complain about, and it will consume you. There are plenty of examples of that on this board.

-Goose

P.S. High school sucked.

 

[California]

nevermind

 

[ifly4u]

LOL Good replies. I don't think anyone expects an instructing job to be paradise but I think the money is the big hang up for most people. Not making enough money to pay the bills effects your attitude a lot. If they would pay the instructors even half of what they bill the students it would make the whole experience a whole lot more tolerable. Why we can't have a union like electricians and other skilled laborers is beyond me. Well actually that's not true I know the answer to that a cfi union would never get off the ground because too many instructors would see a union as limiting their potential by restricting their ability to build time. It is the very "time builders" that everybody loathes that drive down the quality of life for flight instructors because they are all to happy to accept long hours with low pay just to get the time and move on. If you stand up and refuse to work 14 hour days for 8 bucks an hour the next guy will so what can you do. I don't understand why it's considered noble to accept poor working conditions as a flight instructor but you're a wh*re if you go to work for a low pay airline like Mesa. They use all the same justifications that cfi's do, "I'm just doing this for now until I get the experience" etc. etc. I see people rage against pilots who PFT and work at bottom tier airlines but turn around and pat someone on the back for flying 150 hours a month at slave wages. It's the flight instructor double standard. Just my observation.

 

[HAL]

Thank you all for your replies. Good thoughts from everyone.

I really started this thread because that article clicked into something I'd been thinking about for quite a while. I was not bashing CFI's for their attitudes or work ethics. Merely reminding those thinking about becoming CFI's (or are new to the job) that it takes a lot more than a little plastic card from the FAA to make you a great CFI, and being a great CFI is what you owe everyone who walks through the flight school door.

And for those who complain about airline pilots having rose-colored glasses, I am only six years removed from a long stint as a CFI. I loved the job, was paid cr@p, and learned more about aviation from that job than any other I've had since. I still go back and visit the FBO often, and keep in contact with former co-workers and students. Yes, it was difficult, but if you can do it the right way, with the right attitude, being a CFI will make you a good pilot for life.

On a different note, a long time ago on this board I posted a thread on the same subject of what Goose Egg said a couple posts above. If you're not happy (or at least somewhat pleased) with your current job, you may never be happy as a pilot. Pilots as a group are a very focused bunch of people who can spend years aiming at a single goal, scratching and clawing to get there. For a few of them once they reach that goal, they realize it was the fight up the hill they enjoyed, not the end of the journey, and suddenly discover they hate being a pilot. Don't let that happen to you - stop and smell the roses, and enjoy every flight you have the privilege of piloting.

HAL

 

[MTpilot]

F**k YEAH!

 

[HMR]

Holy Crap HMR! Where did you work?! I don't think I ever made more than $16k a year as an instructor and I felt pretty fortunate... bought Ramen by the crate at Sam's Club! Good on ya for being able to get that - it's what instructors should get - but I think most would say you were in the minority!

I didn't realize things were that bad out there! Didn't mean to rub it in. I worked at a busy PT61 SoCal flight school. We had a great facility-each instructor had a private office, aircraft were mostly new. Management sucked but I was too busy to notice.

When I was flying PT135 for crappy pay I would give King Air instruction on the side for $100/hr. Kept me off the Ramen.

 

[DruDown]

oooopppps

 

[DruDown]

I love how people with thousands of hours tell other pilots that they need to be the best CFIs they can be. I fully agree that pilot mills focused on jets at 100 hours are a bad thing, but let's not forget that being a CFI sucks, sucks, sucks.

I remember my wife crying in the grocery store because we didn't have enough money to eat, again. I remember working 6 days a week to make less than $1000 a month. I remember driving all the way out to the hangar, only to have the guy be a no-show. I remember eating one bowl of cereal for breakfast, and one can of Chunky's soup for lunch everyday, because it added up to less than $2.50. I remember not having any insurance.

I had some great experiences too, but like remembering an old girlfriend, lots of you fellow airline pilots quickly forget the bad.

Ask any doctor or lawyer about their first years out of school. I bet you get similar responses. If a doctor just looked as his/her residency as a "timebuilding" process to get to a private practice, I wouldn't want that doctor treating me. Why would I want a flight instructor who only cares about filling in the blanks teaching me how to fly and airplane that will have my family on board?

No one forgets about how tough it was (and is). We all know, we've lived it. I was just having a conversation today with some other former CFIs about how much fun we had going through it. Sure we were broke, our students no-showed, planes weren't perfect, but it's all about what you take from it and what you can pass on to your students. Don't forget, being a CFI is being a PROFESSIONAL pilot, too.

 

[urflyingme?!]

HMR ever fly into TOA, thats where I did my private.

I think this is a great thread. A good CFI is like gold! As a current student I can tell the good guys, the great CFI's and the time-builders apart. All you CFI's out there, keep on trucking, you're what makes us students great(eventualy). I remember back (just 2 yrs!) when I thouhgt my CFI was the king of the sky! Thanks to all you guys who put up with the stupid questions and lame excuses. iIthink you should keep all we pay you, if the school wants to keep some, then they can charge more for the plane.

 

[Goose Egg]

Yeah, I'll be the first to admit that aspects of this job definitely suck. My point is that I love it anyway, and I can't think of anything I'd realistically rather be doing right now. And I don't anticipate anything different with future flying jobs that I may have.

-Goose

 

[Lead Sled]

A good CFI is like gold! As a current student I can tell the good guys, the great CFI's and the time-builders apart.

You hit the nail square on the head. The CFI you use is the single most important factor in determining the quality of the instruction you receive. In the end, it doesn't matter what type or how new your training aircraft is or what school or how fancy their facilities are - none of that will matter if you have a "golden" CFI and none of that will help you if you don't.

'Sled

 

[bender]

ATP doesn't have a policy of no flight into IMC. I flew around 6 hours in IMC in the program and shot a couple night IMC approaches during my XC phase. Perhaps your instructor didn't feel comfortable or maybe there was icing?

 

[hindsight2020]

my 02 cents

LOL Good replies. I don't think anyone expects an instructing job to be paradise but I think the money is the big hang up for most people. Not making enough money to pay the bills effects your attitude a lot. If they would pay the instructors even half of what they bill the students it would make the whole experience a whole lot more tolerable. Why we can't have a union like electricians and other skilled laborers is beyond me. Well actually that's not true I know the answer to that a cfi union would never get off the ground because too many instructors would see a union as limiting their potential by restricting their ability to build time. It is the very "time builders" that everybody loathes that drive down the quality of life for flight instructors because they are all to happy to accept long hours with low pay just to get the time and move on. If you stand up and refuse to work 14 hour days for 8 bucks an hour the next guy will so what can you do. I don't understand why it's considered noble to accept poor working conditions as a flight instructor but you're a wh*re if you go to work for a low pay airline like Mesa. They use all the same justifications that cfi's do, "I'm just doing this for now until I get the experience" etc. etc. I see people rage against pilots who PFT and work at bottom tier airlines but turn around and pat someone on the back for flying 150 hours a month at slave wages. It's the flight instructor double standard. Just my observation.

Pretty good observation, in my opinion. The problem I have with the "it's all about the flying" rationalization for the status quo that we face is that the valuation is placed on an artificial "top goal". That is to say, the major airline gig, and everything below that is a stepping stone. In the process, the QOL goes down the sh$tter. The market, fully aware that people are whorin' themselves for hours, keeps the salaries low and the only difference between bitter and banking is an individual's ability to artificially sustain a living, meaning not having a NEED to depend on the income your flying job provides.

Of course as we all know, the majority of people looking to get on the airline track do not fall into this category, they all depend on that below-poverty-line salary and most can't compete with the kid that pretty much uses the regional pay for pocket change while daddy ran and continues to run with the differential that is needed to sustain that quality of life most seek and few enjoy.

Then it gets better....Furloughed? Well, that kid didn't feel a dent, his access was compatible with a job whose compensation wasn't crucial for the survival of his lifestyle (read rich) while you, dreaming of that wide-body jet, just f%cked yourself. It wasn't Sept. 11, or the unions, YOU decided to pursue a vocation in a manner that created a scenario where the compensation for that vocation became moot. People go all day talking about flight instructing being a de facto part-time pursuit. LOL I say F$ck that, your airline gig is a de facto part time job.

We all understand how irrelevant and self-defeating a life can be when it doesn't involve pursuing one's talents and insight, and that is why we all share this same interest and struggle to make ends meet in the process. But let's not go off the left end because we don't like living in the far right end. So we hate the Office Space that America has become? I second that, but don't trade one evil for the other. My friend, watching the sunset with you sitting on the controls, free as can be, IS NO different than popping pills @ lunch at your desk hoping they'd fire ya and your 50K/year, when you land and have to go flip burgers to pay rent.

If the pilot community would attain a balance in the valuation of things, we would all be better off. Compensation would be more appropriate (instead of top heavy) and more flying careers would be thought of as worthwhile endeavors and not mere stepping stones. I personally believe there are options, even in this airline-centric age; niche markets to be tapped into, better compensating jobs for career CFI's with other formal education such as engineering or management just to make a few examples. Options that are not inherently selfish and do attain a balance between what's important to all of us as pilots (pursuing our passion) and those who surround us (our families, our support structure)....IMHO anyways.

Happy flying folks

 

[sigler]

Yeah, instructing really sucks. I hated it, and while I did have fun sometimes, for the most part I simply hated it. That said, I always tried to put myself in the student's place and realize that it is not the guy's fault that I didn't like my job, so I always tried my best to be the best CFI I could.


The problem I see is that I really didn't have a choice. There I was, fresh out of flight school, ready to fly as many hours as I could in any given day, but there was no way I'd be able to get a job outside of flight instructing. If I had any choice at all I would have not worked as a CFI, but nowdays people just don't have a chioce but to instruct.

It really sucks for the students who would be much better off flying with someone who actually likes to ibe a CFI, but that's just the way the industry is set up. Oh well.

.