CFII Logbook Questions

[Timebuilder]

According to the above quoted reg, you can log PIC while receiving training. As a flight instructor, you can log PIC. Ergo, two PIC logging people.

 

[avbug]

There are several cases under which two pilots may log pilot-in-command time at the same time, but there are never any circumstances under which two pilots may act as pilot-in-command at the same time, in the same aircraft.

A student pilot may log pilot in command time when solo, but may not log pilot in command time when flying with an instructor.

A student who is rated in the airplane, having at least a recreational pilot certificate or higher, may log pilot in command while receiving instruction, if qualified to act as pilot in command and acting as sole manipulator of the controls.

A flight instructor may not log a student's landings for currency, nor may a flight instructor log a student's instrument approaches for currency.

 

[puddlejumper]

A student who is rated in the airplane, having at least a recreational pilot certificate or higher, may log pilot in command while receiving instruction, if qualified to act as pilot in command and acting as sole manipulator of the controls.

I'm not sure if I'm reading your wording right on this one AvBug. You say that in order for a student pilot to LOG PIC he must be "qualified to act" as PIC? This seems contrary to earlier discussions and the legal interpretations. I thought the endorsements were required to be qualified to ACT as PIC but not to LOG PIC.

I thought we were all getting somewhere there for a while, and agreed that if a pilot has the appropriate category/class ratings he or she could log PIC while sole manipulator while not necessarily having the endorsements to be legal as acting PIC.

One other thing, the student pilot logging PIC:

FAR 61.51(e)(4) A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when the student pilot --
(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing the duties of pilot of command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Has a current solo flight endorsement as required under § 61.87 of this part; and
(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating.

Is (i) along with (ii) and (iii) required for a student to log PIC or is it (i) or (ii) and (iii)? What exactly does the ( semi-colon mean? I've never heard of a student pilot logging dual as PIC before.

-PJ

 

[Timebuilder]

If the student is the sole occupant as in (i), then how can he be undergoing flight training (iii) without the instructor?

 

[puddlejumper]

Solo flights are training

Those solo flights are actually supposed to be part of a training program, don't you think? Under 141 they are part of the sillybus and everything.

I've just never heard of anyone logging dual as PIC for a student pilot before...

By the way avbug, I didn't mean to wink at you, I was trying to put a ; in parenthesis'

-PJ

 

[Timebuilder]

Doc's FAR page also underscores the SOLO part of the student PIC logging.

Although the student may be there as a part of a training program, albeit loosely speaking when talking aboout part 61, it still seems funny that the student is "undergoing training" without his instructor.

Uncle.

I did a little research in my old logbook, and it's true. The only PIC time I had was when I was a solo pilot. Must be that CRS again! In fact, it has been a long time since I had a true primary student. My record shows that my pre-solo students did not have PIC time indicated by me, except for solo. It must be time for bed....

 

[bobbysamd]

Logging time

Avbug has it right on each point, based on my historic understanding of the regs and new understanding of the regs change on a student pilot logging PIC while flying solo in the airplane.

By the way, did anyone see in a recent AOPA pub that it is lobbying the FAA to change the high-performance signoff reg so that total horsepower exceeds 200 instead of "an" engine having 200 hp? Good news for Seminole, Duchess, etc. drivers.