Centurion Cargo

[Solo]

Anyone with Centurion Cargo? If so, How are they treating you?

 

[gringo]

Anyone with Centurion Cargo? If so, How are they treating you?

For a scumbag operation, not bad at all!

 

[gringo]

Ok, I wrote that first post at some ungodly hour in the morning- I can clarify a bit now that I'm awake.

Centurion Air Cargo can be a good place for you if you can pass this simple litmus test...

Back in high school, in your English class, did the textbook say English 102, 103 or anything similar? Or, did the letters "ESL" appear on the cover? If your book had "ESL" written on it, you'll do fine, even though it's a scumbag operation. Well. maybe not fine, but better than those of us who speak English natively.

Centurion had an opportunity to become a pretty good airline at one point- after they crashed an airplane in Bogota, they brought in a new management team, most of whom came over from Gemini. There were two problems with this; 1) they tried to make the airline into a real world-wide capable airline (instead of simply bouncing between Cali and Bogota all the time) and (this is important) they were gringos.

They actually had a decent amount of flights going across the pond, to Africa as well as Asia, but then someone decided that flying over the Atlantic was too scary or too difficult or they just didn't speak enough Spanish in Luxembourg or whatever, so they pretty much fouled that up. I'm embellishing a bit, but the bottom line is Operations couldn't handle the logistics of flying anywhere but South America. Lots of internal strife between Management and the Owner, so they were all pretty much fired, the Owner brought in a bunch of latinos and now they're pretty much flying back and fourth from Bogota and Cali, and not much else.

As far as treatment goes, and although this is my story, it applies to pretty much everyone in my class from July 2005. We spent I don't know, 3 weeks for Basic Indoc, 4 days to learn the systems, checkride (a lot of fun- my checkairman had this idea that after 4 days in systems, we would somehow know the airplane inside and out... fun checkride). Then I went home. For 2 more months, collecting "training pay", or $225 a week. You see, there were no training provisions in the contract that states, (unlike at Evergreen or just about anywhere else) that, if not complete with training for any reason within "X" amount of days, you go to your minimum guarantee. And then it gets better- Centurion dosen't consider you to be "fully qualified" until you finish IOE, so they'll fly you as many hours for free as possible before signing you off. 25 hours is the minimum- I spent almost 50 hours on IOE, going back and fourth between Bogota and MIA, waiting for a trip across the pond to finish IOE. I know a few who finished around 30 hours, but most in my class spent 40-50 hours in the air.

And then they furloughed us.

They let nearly 30 of us go January 1st; within 2 months, most have either come back, given the option to come back, or quit and went elsewhere. All but 3.

The interesting thing, I found out shortly afterwards, is that the Union voted whether to bring us 3 back, or to keep us on furlough. There was enough flying to go around for everyone, but that meant no overtime for the senior guys. Considering that Centurion offers a) no pension b) no 401k c) nothing at all in the way of security, it dosen't amaze me too much that these guys voted the way they did. If I was approaching 60 and working for a scumbag operation like that with no future in sight, my dreams of retiring comfortably shot all to h#ll, I'd consider it as well. But there's not too much else you can expect from a bunch of Eastern scabs...

But I digress. Anyway, we were voted out, and stayed thatway for a few more months. At this point, Centurion was losing Captains and FO's left and right, and the remaining flight crews were flying overtime and days off. The new DO and old CP came up with a plan to bring us back- upgrade 3 FO's to Captain, that would open up 3 more slots, and everyone would be happy.

Except the new CEO shot that down, saying that nobody's coming back until the new contract was signed. So there went that.

And as far as the Union goes, the Teamsters were the most useless sacks of s#it out there. Not even so much as a phone call or an email during this entire ordeal to let us know a) what's going on b) what we can do in the meanwhile or c) anything at all.

I have subsequently quit the airlines all together, and for that, I'm thankful; I'm not bitter at all about what happened (anymore, anyway). I got a chance to do what I thought I always wanted- fly internationally in a widebody, and I found out that, for me anyway, it's not all it's cracked up to be anymore. So for that, I'm happy with my experience with Centurion- I'm now spending much more time with my family and persuing a career that's far more lucrative than flying, and it didn't take me 20 years to figure it out. But I keep in touch with the few remaining classmates of mine who are still over there (only 3 or so form the original 28)- almost all of them are actively persuing other jobs or other careers altogether, so it sounds like things aren't getting any better over ther anytime soon.

As far as the furlough, it's still going on; the remaining 2 guys got a recall a month ago, but then that was cancelled, last I heard.

 

[CRACKHEAD]

Heavy flying

deleted

 

[Bellerophon]

I wonder if their pilots voted to cross our picket line.

Bel

 

[gringo]

I wonder if their pilots voted to cross our picket line.

Bel

I wouldn't put it past them...

Anyway, that reminds me of another amusing little anecdote I remembered on my drive back from Rockford today...

3 months into the furlough, I called our Teamster union rep, Daisy something, and I asked her what was the status on the furlogh and any word on the remaming 3 guys could excpect to get back to work.

Her reply? "What are you talking about? Furlough's over! Everyone came back!"

When I informed her of the error of her thinking, she replied to the tone of "huh, I didn't know there were still guys on the street..."

Gave me such a big warm fuzzy knowing that my union was up to speed on such an important topic. At least they were nice enough to take their grubby hands out of my wallet during the ordeal.

 

[heilhaavir]

If I remember correctly they were flying accross the pond below RVSM... You'd think that if the Gemeni guys were as smart as you say they were, they would have gotten the MNPS qual... Did they ever get it?

You say the last 2 guys' recall was cancelled. Are you talking about 2 FEs? If so, they told me they would only go back if they could upgrade to the right seat.

Centurion had an opportunity to become a pretty good airline at one point- after they crashed an airplane in Bogota, they brought in a new management team, most of whom came over from Gemini. There were two problems with this; 1) they tried to make the airline into a real world-wide capable airline (instead of simply bouncing between Cali and Bogota all the time) and (this is important) they were gringos.

They actually had a decent amount of flights going across the pond, to Africa as well as Asia, but then someone decided that flying over the Atlantic was too scary or too difficult or they just didn't speak enough Spanish in Luxembourg or whatever, so they pretty much fouled that up. I'm embellishing a bit, but the bottom line is Operations couldn't handle the logistics of flying anywhere but South America. Lots of internal strife between Management and the Owner, so they were all pretty much fired, the Owner brought in a bunch of latinos and now they're pretty much flying back and fourth from Bogota and Cali, and not much else.

 

[filejw]

And so why would there be a add on Climbed for pilots in all 3 seats

 

[HA25]

It's threads like this that make me go to bed every night thanking God that I got my break back into flying, and cargo with Gemini.

Apart from Gemini and Atlas, there really is only one other ACMI worth looking into, World, the rest of the are just a disaster.

 

[80for80]

It's threads like this that make me go to bed every night thanking God that I got my break back into flying, and cargo with Gemini.

Apart from Gemini and Atlas, there really is only one other ACMI worth looking into, World, the rest of the are just a disaster.

So, In other words you are saying..... My ACMI sucks less than your ACMI.

 

[HA25]

So, In other words you are saying..... My ACMI sucks less than your ACMI.

you work for World?

At this point in time, I think World is the best ACMI, Atlas, then Gemini... but I think Gemini has the most upside, and the new slate they've gotten and new capital backing is going to either lead to great things, or nothing!

Really though, apart from those 3, the rest are just bottom dwellers.

 

[HA25]

Get off your horse, all ACMI's are bottom dwellers. We pick up the flying that nobody else can or will do. If you're seeking to define the "lagacies" of the ACMI world, it's pointless. Are you still going to think Atlas and World are the cream of the crop when your ACMI contract is lost to one of them? What about it it's lost to Kalitta or Tradewinds? They suck?

It's a very cutthroat world with short term contracts and furloughs, etc. My ACMI has not had a pilot on furlough since early 2002. I don't think Gemini can make that claim, nor Atlas. Do I think my company is better than the rest? NO. We all suck in our own ways.

It's well and good you enjoy your job at Gemini and I wish you luck in your career there. But don't try to make us at the "bottom dwellers" of the ACMI world try and feel lesser than you because we're not owned by the Carlyle Group.

No, actually I won't get off.. that's just it, the problem with ACMI is that people try to lump them all into one group.. there is a world of difference between how an ALPA contract operation like Gemini, Atlas, etc operate and treat their pilots than the type of crap that goes on at the likes of Centurion.

I've got close friends at Kalitta and they would trade with me in a heart beat, why? the quality of the operation... Gemini has the experience in ACMI that few others have, the newer equipment that many don't have, and most importantly the pilot group which is united under ALPA.

So no, I will not lump Gemini in with Centurion.. as much as you'd like to hear me do that.

 

[80for80]

you work for World?

At this point in time, I think World is the best ACMI, Atlas, then Gemini... but I think Gemini has the most upside, and the new slate they've gotten and new capital backing is going to either lead to great things, or nothing!

Really though, apart from those 3, the rest are just bottom dwellers.

No, I work for an ACMI killer.

 

[HA25]

No, I work for an ACMI killer.

Not sure what can kill an ACMI other than another ACMI... in the end, it's about providing airlines with excess capacity in peak demand moments so they don't have to have larger than necessary fleets. You do understand that, right?

 

[HA25]

First off pal... you never once tell me who you work for.

Secondly, it's not all about ALPA as but yes, ALPA is the best union to represent pilots, not some damn trucker union! World has been around a while and is a tight pilot group so Teamsters has done well for them but just read our friends post above and how well Teamsters has done for Centurion.

it is about union vs non-union. There are a lot of non-union ACMI that are dragging us down with them to the bottom in terms of pilot work rules and pay.. Moreover, ABEX and Astar are not an ACMI, they are in a whole different league and I can only hope Gemini gets to be as big. Kitty Hawk is also an ALPA carrier with pretty darn good work rules and pay.. so don't YOU lump them all together either, just so you can try to paint me into a corner.

But the likes of Cargo 360, Express.net, Tradewinds, Murray, and other non-union bottom dwellers are the problem.. between them, and the idiots that think the Teamsters are going to save them from corporate greed, it's makes it pretty damn hard for an pilot group that is doing things the right way to compete.. In the end, the mediator only needs to point at one of those bottom dwellers and say.. "well, Centurion does that.."

No, you need to learn a thing or two about the business.. I may be new to ACMI, but I'm not new to flying and I'm not new to unions..

Now, tell us what this company you fly for is that we can all hold it up as a role model? It better be Atlas or Polar, or you're wasting my time.

 

[cbeyw]

NOTAM I

V70T5 does not represent Gemini Air Cargo pilots feelings toward other ACMI. So please understand he is new and is all happy about flying an MD-11. Give him some time to understand that we are all in the same boat.

 

[HA25]

NOTAM I

V70T5 does not represent Gemini Air Cargo pilots feelings toward other ACMI. So please understand he is new and is all happy about flying an MD-11. Give him some time to understand that we are all in the same boat.

ouch..

 

[cbeyw]

V70T5 Welcome to Gemini. Make the best out of it and learn as much as you can. In the airline business you might be on top for a few years (not meaning that Gemini is the top) but don't forget that at some point you'll be at the bottom. Once again welcome to Gemini.

 

[HA25]

I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you do vote ALPA in ... I'm a 8 year member, and I am a believer in One pilot union. Sorry if my passion for my profession got the better of me.. you can't take this personally as I don't know you.. for me it's all about raising the bar.. YOU CAN'T DO THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE RACING YOU TO THE BOTTOM.

Remember those last words.. I'm done here.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

#1 Bottom Feeder

I'm not into putting down one carrier over another, but I like to consider us(Atlas) as the Premier Bottom Feeder:laugh:

Now getting back to this thread, I have a friend who was hired at Centurion, and was jerked around on his IOE and then furloughed shortly after that, he had nothing good to say about CENTURION!!!!!