Central Air crash in Michigan?

[RJPilott]

I think you need to turn down your .50 Cent CD on the woofer there gangsta man. The thumping must be screwing with your comprehension.

I didnt refer to all freight dogs as whores. Just those that fly for 1500/mo and pay half their health. But I do like those rates you guys have. Almost as good as A320 and 737 rates. How often do you get to be home to spend it? lol


Getting back to the original thread...

What type of training program is at CASW? I heard Scott had just got his CFI a few months prior to being hired at CASW. Then was only employed at CASW for about a month. Is this true?

 

[ubpilot]

Here are something you might find interesting,

• Standard cockpit in all 30+ aircraft.
• Plane does not have DME.
• Plane does not have ADF.
• Plane has a VFR GPS with old database.
• Some plane’s glide slope seems working, but the flag was always showing.
• TKS is great on the AC-500, but 50% of the plane I have flown the high-pressure light came on when I selected TKS on.
• Some plane’s windshield TKS don’t even spray in the ICING condition.
• 30% of the plane I have flown with borken heater at –25C.
• Who ever been based in GRR, will never say the maintenance is good.
• 95% of the time wind does not favor ILS 9 in GLR.
• Runway snow removing job is terrible at GLR.
• Winter in TVC and GLR starts mid November and ends early March.

Great learning experience, but I think it’s not worth it. Good place to build up Part 135 twin time, but not during the winter.

 

[NoPax]

Although you may want to go back and edit your posts from the previous thread we both engaged in.

OK, I've already answered this, I know, but I was wondering which posts exactly you wanted me to edit. Could you suggest exactly what you would like me to put in there.

Perhaps we could also get everyone to edit their posts about your carrier made a few months ago also - what's your point???

What type of training program is at CASW?

FAR Part 135 approved training program.

Great learning experience, but I think it’s not worth it. Good place to build up Part 135 twin time, but not during the winter.

It snows in winter and gets cold in some parts of the US. Sorry about that, we paid our 'weather bill', I just don't understand. 'great learning experience, good place to build time, but its not worth it' - what else were you looking for? - it's an entry level job

Some plane’s glide slope seems working, but the flag was always showing.

If things are broken on any Part 135 airplane, squawk it up, it must be addressed. My experience is that usually a phonecall to maintenance (free) to let them know will solve the problem. If it can't be fixed by outsourced maintenance, write it up in the maintenance log, so that the next pilot can see the maintenance history of the airplane - and that would also ground the airplane until it's fixed.

30% of the plane I have flown with borken heater at –25C

Heater's will break if they are misused - turn them off prior to gear down, and don't run them on the ground - ref company checklist and training manual.

The heater has been a problem in the airplane. CASW have pulled out the old ones to install a new model (STC'd), and they have been found to be more reliable than the old ones.

50% of the plane I have flown the high-pressure light came on when I selected TKS

Some plane’s windshield TKS don’t even spray in the ICING condition

Check it preflight like you are meant to - did it spray prior to entering icing conditions? Refer to the supplement/bulletin that tells you how to operate in known icing. If it doesn't work it may have frozen over - if it doesn't work, don't fly in known icing conditions - you are breaking regulations and putting your career and the company's good reputation on the line.

Common sense...people.

 

[RJPilott]

Minimum Pilot In Command Qualifications

FAA Commercial Pilot License with instrument and multi-engine ratings, a total time of 1,200 hours, 500 hours cross-country, 100 night, 75 instrument and current FAA Second Class Medical. 100 hours of total multi-engine time


Training normally lasts between 5-9 days, depending on pilot experience. Training consists of ground school and airplane training. Central Air Southwest absorbs all training costs, but pilot trainee is responsible for his or her own lodging and food. NOTE: If you choose to stay in Central Air's pilot bunkhouse, we charge $20.00 per night. Sunday nights are free if you stay for 1 week and we offer free laundry services. Prior to training, all applicants must sign a 6-month binding work agreement. Our next pilot training class is to be announced

For the first 6-months pilots are on probation, earning $1,500 per month. After probation is over, pilots can earn an average of $1,700-$2,500 per month, depending on route and duty assignment.
Paid vacation and holidays are earned after 1 year of full-time employment. After 90 days, health insurance is available to full time employees, Central Air Southwest pays 50% of the premium and the employee pays the other 50%.

http://www.centralairsouthwest.com/employment.html

 

[RJPilott]

Does CASW have its own Check airmen or does the POI do all checks?

 

[NoPax]

Does CASW have its own Check airmen or does the POI do all checks?

The Chief Pilot, and Director of Operations each conduct flight checks.

It is common for someone staying longer than just 6 months to do their second ride with our POI and get their ATP out of it also. We continue to have a very good relationship with the FAA.

I have been told that there is a DPE in the process of being checked out. I'm not sure what the plans regarding him - possibly a check airman also.

The Commander is quite a unique airplane, and there are not a lot of people out there qualified to examine in it.

You thinking of applying?!? - thats from our employment webpage.

 

[RJPilott]

What is the pass rate at CASW for a pilot hired with 1200TT and 75 hours instrument time (assuming 40 was attributed to the instrument rating) with 5-9 days training in the unique AC500? And if the pilot does pass, is he/she expected to fly single pilot ops in the conditions observed in that video the day after his/her checkride with the condition of aircraft described by ubpilot?

Being that you said CASW is an entry level position to command such a unique airplane, what are competitive mins for hiring?


Any news on the accident?

 

[NoPax]

What is the pass rate at CASW for a pilot hired with 1200TT and 75 hours instrument time (assuming 40 was attributed to the instrument rating) with 5-9 days training in the unique AC500?

I don't know, I'm not based where our offices are, but I can tell you that they will not fly the line until they are ready to do so. We have a great, caring Chief Pilot that has owned and operated the Commanders for over 25 years. I'll pass on JT's phone number if you want to ask him questions. He'd be a better source than me for that question.

Some of the training is on the job - with approved line pilots. Some lines fly in excess of 5 hours per night. Therefore, you could get a lot of time in that 5-9 days.

After flying with them, experiencing the operations first hand, I'm sure some pilots admit that it's not for them. As I have said many times on this forum - this flying is not for everyone. They are free to go anytime during training.

I also know that JT wouldn't put someone on the line if he felt they were a liability.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The aircraft is different than other light twins in a few ways. This doesn't mean it is difficult to fly, quite the opposite, it's simpler than a lot of it's counterparts.

For example, it doesn't have a fuel selector valve, no cross-feeding (beacuse of the fuel system), unfeathering accumulators. It has high torque starters, hydraulic only steering, a common hydraulic system - gear, flaps, brakes, steering. It takes a little getting used to, for me about 15 hours.

I said that there were not a lot of people qualified to examine in it because the FAA approve DPEs specifically for make and model of twin, and the DPE must maintain annual currency in the airplane - there must be a demand for DPE to examine in the airplane, and up until now the checkrides have been conducted between the POI the Chief Pilot, and Director of Operations, therefore there has been no demand.

There may also be specific make and model insurance requirements to meet before you are qualified to conduct flight checks.

Being that you said CASW is an entry level position to command such a unique airplane, what are competitive mins for hiring?

If you meet the minimums, have good instrument skills, and complete the training they will hire you.

Any news on the accident?

Not that I've heard.

Any suggestions? How do you think CASW could improve to increase the margin of safety in the future?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJPilott
Although you may want to go back and edit your posts from the previous thread we both engaged in.

What does this mean?

 

[KigAir]

Some of the training is on the job - with approved line pilots. Some lines fly in excess of 5 hours per night. Therefore, you could get a lot of time in that 5-9 days.

Is this their PFT SIC program that somebody mentioned?

 

[ubpilot]

What is the pass rate at CASW for a pilot hired with 1200TT and 75 hours instrument time (assuming 40 was attributed to the instrument rating) with 5-9 days training in the unique AC500? And if the pilot does pass, is he/she expected to fly single pilot ops in the conditions observed in that video the day after his/her checkride with the condition of aircraft described by ubpilot?

To pass the check ride or the getting hired is one thing, but can the pilot really handle the real hard core IFR down to minimum in the icing condition is a totally different story. You have to understand that these GRR, YIP, STL, STP based pilots have to deal with the nasty weather through out the entire winter. If you go through the SIC program, the chance of getting hired is very good.

 

[ubpilot]

To pass the check ride or the getting hired is one thing, but can the pilot really handle the real hard core IFR down to minimum in the icing condition is a totally different story. You have to understand that these GRR, YIP, STL, STP based pilots have to deal with the nasty weather through out the entire winter. If you go through the SIC program, the chance of getting hired is very good.

 

[CaravanMan]

Is this their PFT SIC program that somebody mentioned?

No. I flew with PIC trainees this whole week on my runs. They are not paying a dime to sit there. They sit in the right seat and observe, and I explain as much about route flying as I can. It's really beneficial for them because, naturally, during training you're not going to be out in the nasty weather; you're not going to be trying to fill out paperwork in the plane while training, etc. All of the PIC trainees that have flown with me, or any other route pilot for that matter, to observe could not stop talking about how helpful those observation flights are. They were thrilled at how much they learned after just a few hours on a run. They see how much your workload increases once you get out there on your own. While I have them there I try to give them as much info as I can on winter ops, ice flying, thunderstorms and the like, because for many, yes, this IS an entry level job and they're not going to have that experience until their first time in it.

With that said, I'll back up what NoPax has said about the training. I felt very comfortable with the training I received, and NO one will be turned loose until they are ready. I was turned loose as soon as my training was complete, but I had already been flying 135 freight for a while, so I was ready. I have seen others come thru that were not quite as experienced, and the company did not send them out alone on a whim, but rather they have other seasoned pilots fly the line with them until they are ready. Getting back to the 135 minimums posted above...1200TT, etc...it's amazing, but our pilots just starting out here have two or three times the flight time than the Wonderboys they are letting into the right seat of your RJs.

JT and MB are both very nice guys and very smart pilots with years and years of experience. The compassion and genuine feelings I have seen from the both of them, especially in the past few days, is amazing. They really do care about their pilots and do everything they can to make sure we are all safe. Unfortunately, accidents do happen. It's the nature of what we do guys.

 

[Tug Driver]

I agree with both sides. First off the commander is super easy to fly. And if you follow the profile its pretty easy to shoot approaches in as well. I like not having to mess with the fuel system and I like it that if your gear doesnt extend, all you have to do is slow the airplane down below 100 and the nitrogen bottle will take care of the rest. I like that all cockpits are the same layout. And I like that there is only one fuel cap. I like the TKS system. I was in the clouds for 15 minutes last week and my non protected areas had 2 inch ice horns, but my wings and tail were clear. I like that when I squawk something its fixed by GRR mechanics. I also think that the commanders handle great on one engine.

I my training consisted of about 7 hours of flight time with the CP and about 10 hours of ride along with BQ. I think that some of the training areas could be revised to include more detail in areas such as: part 135 rules and wx req, alternate ap req, and hazmat, ect... I had a roomate who flew for Airnet and I had to laugh, because his training for the baron consisted of 6 weeks worth of ground school and sim time, while I was out on the line within 6 days.

I have had many "firsts" during this job. When I ferried the airplane up to Michigan, that was the first time I had every flown solo in a twin. This summer was my first time shooting approches to mins. As an instructor I set very high personal min's for the added safety with students so basically if it was 200 and 1/2 for training, well I think Ill grab some coffee. It was my first time dealing with TS and the strikefinder, which led to my another "first" of getting my a$$ kicked my some of the worst turbulence of my life. Last week I was flying with winds sustained at 30 G 40, in IMC during an approach with LLWS. The night Scott died was the first snow of the season. It was my first time getting to preflight in the hangar and it was the first time that I had to reference my app plates to see if I could even legally t.o. from that runway with the current wx cond. It was the first time that I was issued MU reports or was requested to give a braking action pirep. It was the first time I had taxied thru such deep snow drifts in near whiteout conditions. It was amazing. You just don't have those kind of experiences as a CFI, at least I didn't.

What this accident has shown me is that I am not invulnerable. I am not a super pilot. Its been an unfortunet reality check that you can never get too comfortable. I do not know anything more about the cause of the accident and I do not care to speculate. However, I have seen a photo of the scene and I can honestly say that I wish I hadn't.

I attended Scotts funeral today in Chicago. I was a very nice service with more than 100 people in attendance. The downside was that it was all conducted in a forgien language (to me), so I was not able to understand anything. Scott was a really great guy and in my opinion a great pilot. I flew with him as recently as last week and I noticed nothing that would lead me to believe that pilot error played a role.

As you can see Ive had a lot of new experiences in the last 5 months, and the experience of losing a fellow pilot/friend is not one that I ever want to experience again. I know that I can hack it single pilot IFR but Im not sure that I really want to anymore. I just feel sick.

 

[Slippery Wing]

Stick with it, Tug Driver. If you wish to make a long career out of aviation, this will not be the last fellow aviator you see fly West.

The best thing you can do is get back in the seat and go fly.

Very good post, by the way.

Regards,

Slippery Wing

 

[ACT700]

...
I didnt refer to all freight dogs as whores. Just those that fly for 1500/mo and pay half their health.
...

That would make Regional Airline Pilots what?! hhmm, ..., pimps, maybe?