CE-750 Trans-Pacific?

[GVFlyer]

You're welcome, glad I could help. Have fun!

The DOC / Range data came from Fall Conklin and deDecker which is what we use for third party data. Sales Engineering has more accurate data, but for some there would be a question of objectivity were that data used.

GV








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[CatYaaak]

G-V, where did you get the range number for the Falcon? They differ from Dassault numbers. (BTW, I would tend to agree with what you posted)

Also, thank-you for not starting the illogical and irrational debate on the DA-2000.

I extend my thanks to G-V also. Illogical and irrational debates should be limited to comparing the WSCoD to the far-superior, glorious Workers' Yak-40....a Pilot's Dream if there ever was one. And if everyone insists on ignoring the floatability factor of the Falcon vs. the Inferior Rest even when the trip in question requires crossing the largest body of water on the planet, I'll just mention that when you take off in a -40, you'll probably land with just as many engines a Gulfstream lands with, PLUS those big Yak tundra tires give you more options in the event all three stop turning and you happen to be over frozen or soggy land. Personally, I put primacy on floating to manage risk, but the balloon tire thing rates a close second.

Clearly, commie-built French or Soviet products are the way to go, Comrade.

 

[Snakum]

Hey! Snakum got sent to the sin bin for doing the symbol to circumvent the censor trick.

Yeah ... but I have a pretty good idea why I was singled out among everyone else and their dog doing the same thing in every other post.

Minh
(Crack-smoking Devil-worshipper)

 

[421Driver]

GV, as always, your help is appreciated. If you could put approximate initial cost on your previous post with DOC and range, I'd really appreciate it.

 

[AA717driver]

Yaaak--You need to upgrade your ride to a Yak-42. Talk about a 'worker's paradise'!

We were parked next to a WSCoD in Luton last week. It had a registry that began with "O_-____" but it had Legacy painted on the tail. Maybe it was their European demo airplane. Or, maybe the owner wanted to distinguish it from the "Gulfstream parking lot" that Signature has become... TC

 

[CatYaaak]

Yaaak--You need to upgrade your ride to a Yak-42. Talk about a 'worker's paradise'!

We were parked next to a WSCoD in Luton last week. It had a registry that began with "O_-____" but it had Legacy painted on the tail. Maybe it was their European demo airplane. Or, maybe the owner wanted to distinguish it from the "Gulfstream parking lot" that Signature has become... TC

You can't really tell just by watching the movie, but Willie Wonka's chocolate factory is located very close to Luton, and aircraft registered in Oompa Loompa Land carry the the "O-" prefix, like the one you saw. The WSCoD is considered a large-cabin aircraft there, and that particular aircraft is used as a corporate shuttle for our little candy-making friends. It's funny to watch it taxi when they have Newbie Loompas on their first entry into "Big People Land" (as I'm sure you'e aware they're expat contract workers), and and see their wide-eyed, bright red faces pressed up against the pax windows.

I asked around a bit last time I was there, and my sources indicate they park that aircraft by itself so nobody sneaks on and steals the secret of it's propulsion system, which instead of kerosene apparently uses a Factory-brewed concoction made from Brazilian tree sap and lots of Lemon Fizzy Lifting Drink.

The crew is nice enough though. Whenever they stop dancing and singing in the crew lounge they're quick to hand out Everlasting Gobstoppers and such. All that racket can get annoying if you're in siesta-mode, however, and if you want to shut 'em up or go away to sulk just tell them "Hershey bars rule!". Oh, and don't ask about their women....they have some kind of inferiority complex and get all pi$$y if you ask things like "So tell me about the babes in Toyland?"

Hey....they make a Yak-42???

 

[G100driver]

Yes, but when they fly off in the "Wonkavtor" they circly Rottenberg <sp> Germany.


WTF do I know this .... My daughter and I watched it 3 times on the way to HI.

 

[2000flyer]

In my view, any of the above aircraft would be adequate for your mission except the F2000 (redundancy) and the Citation X (redundancy / reliability - GM and USBank have both recently replaced their X fleets due to inadequate reliability).
GV

You just can't drop it, can you? Easy now...just bustin' your chops a little on a slow Monday

Great numbers in your post!!

2000Flyer

 

[GVFlyer]

GV, as always, your help is appreciated. If you could put approximate initial cost on your previous post with DOC and range, I'd really appreciate it.

You bet, here you go.

DOC/Range (Typical Weights)/Cost(millions)

G450 - $1744 hr. / 4350 nm / $33.50

G350 - $1731 hr. / 3800 nm / $27.50

G400 - $1811 hr. / 4100 nm / $31.00

G300 - $1809 hr. / 3660 nm / $24.50

GIV SP - $ 1864 hr. / 4137 nm / $19.00 - $23.50

GIV - $ 2081 hr. / 4000 nm / $14.00 - $17.00

F900EX - $1688 hr. / 4263 nm / $34.65

F900 - $ 2012 hr. / 3638 nm / $14.00 - $16.50

F50EX - $1432 hr. / 3242 nm / $20.58

F2000EX - $1382 hr. / 3705 nm / $24.85

F2000 - $1394 hr. / 3048 nm / $23.15

Citation X - $1453 / 3098 nm (@M0.82) / $19.26

Just as another point of reference to let you know what other flight departments are doing - I came throught Kona (PHKO) Hawaii yesterday and this was what was on the ramp:

G550 - 1

GV - 3

GIV - 7

GIII - 2

GII/GIIB - 2

G200 - 2

BBJ - 1

Global Express - 1

Challenger 604 - 1

Challenger 601 - 1

F900 - 3

F2000 - 2

Citation X - 2

One of the GIIs belonged to Carlson Company which also ownes a 2004 F2000 which they do not use for overseas travel.

GV







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[G4G5]

GVFlyer, Was that you on the ramp in Sydney last week? I stopped in to check out the demo.

Very funny, the 550 demo was parked next to the Global demo. Unfortunatly for the Global they were swarming with mechanics because the baggage door apparently fell off (came out of the tracks).

 

[banned username 2]

To add to your list of numbers, do you have the numbers (DOC / Aquisition Cost) for the G-500 and G-550 as well?

 

[G100driver]

One of the GIIs belonged to Carlson Company which also ownes a 2004 F2000 which they do not use for overseas travel.

GV
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Now I am really confused by this illogical arument ..... The guy who can afford to own a new DA-2000 is more concerned about a very unlikely dual geneator failure (most likely cause would be massive short or fire) than a very possible fuel emergecy while flying his G-II to Hawaii. Talk about nuts.

I also do not understand what 2 silly Gulfstream 200 operators were doing in Hawaii. After all here they were risking there lives in an airplane that was never intended to go overwater. This is an airplane with 2 AHARS and 2 GPS and no IRS. WOW, who would think that Gulfstream would sell this bill of goods to an unsuspecting public. WTF are you going to if there is a sat failure over the pacific.

 

[GVFlyer]

To add to your list of numbers, do you have the numbers (DOC / Aquisition Cost) for the G-500 and G-550 as well?

Sure, here you go.

Gulfstream G550 - DOC $1912 hr. / Cost $45.75 million / Range 6,750 nm

Gulfstream G500 - DOC $1886 hr. / Cost $38.00 million / Range 5,800 nm


GV

 

[GVFlyer]

Now I am really confused by this illogical arument ..... The guy who can afford to own a new DA-2000 is more concerned about a very unlikely dual geneator failure (most likely cause would be massive short or fire) than a very possible fuel emergecy while flying his G-II to Hawaii. Talk about nuts.

The Carlson aircraft is a G-IIB and is a former Wrigley aircraft which has spent it's entire life in international service. The G-IIB carries 28,300 lbs of usable fuel and is fundamentally a light weight G-III. It has a 3,500 nm range.

I also do not understand what 2 silly Gulfstream 200 operators were doing in Hawaii. After all here they were risking there lives in an airplane that was never intended to go overwater. This is an airplane with 2 AHARS and 2 GPS and no IRS. WOW, who would think that Gulfstream would sell this bill of goods to an unsuspecting public. WTF are you going to if there is a sat failure over the pacific.

As you probably know, I don't consider the G200 to be a Gulfstream. It flys more like a 3/4 scale Challenger. However, it does have a 3400 nm range and Gulfstream's largest customer for the aircraft is NetJets which sells it as an international aircraft.

GV

 

[G100driver]

As you probably know, I don't consider the G200 to be a Gulfstream. It flys more like a 3/4 scale Challenger. However, it does have a 3400 nm range and Gulfstream's largest customer for the aircraft is NetJets which sells it as an international aircraft.

GV

SHHHHHH do not tell Gulfstream .... last I heard Gulfstream took a very hard line on not refering the the Gulfstream 200 as a "real" Gulfstream ... I know that this is definately the case on the service center side.

I also know that Gulfstream demo pilots regularly fly this non-international airplane to Europe and Hawaii.

While admitidly we are getting off the beaten path here, it is just the glass house mentality.

If I ever hear our Gulfstream salesman (good friend to boot) give me this hogwash arguement I will remind him that his company markets airplanes which are MUCH less of an airplane for international/overwater flight than our 2000EX. Noisy and uncomfortable too.

As for the G-IIB, I did not know that you were refering to that airframe. I just assumed that it was a G-II(SP). Which of course has the same range as the Gulfstream-100 . I also feel that guys that fly the G100 to Hawaii should take a very cloes look at what they are doing.

Just so things never get hostile. You make excellent points (GREAT fishing tips as well) and have GREAT info and posts. I just think that the DA-2000 overwater thing is completly illogical .... but that is just me.